Spottiswoode

Arts and Craft goes international! On our 7th episode we’re joined by enigmatic singer, songwriter and filmmaker, Spottiswoode, who joins us from across the pond. He's been called a “genius” and a “downtown ringleader” by The New Yorker, and hailed by a host of other luminaries. We loved chatting about the hardships of creating music videos, the ins and outs of publishing rights, and of course...our favorite movie musicals. www.spottiswoode.com

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SPOTTISWOODE  is an award-winning bandleader, singer-songwriter, scriptwriter and filmmaker. For the past two and half decades, the Anglo-American has been the frontman of the septet, Spottiswoode & His Enemies. The New Yorker refers to him as a “genius” and “downtown ringleader”. With the band, he has released seven acclaimed records, performed numerous Manhattan residencies, and toured extensively from SXSW and Lille Europe to Lincoln Center.

In addition to recording with his Enemies, Spottiswoode has released four solo albums and a duo collection. His songs have been featured in a wide variety of films and television shows. He has been nominated for multiple Independent Music Awards, the piano ballad, Chariot, earning him the prize for Best Adult Contemporary Song.

Spottiswoode’s music travels the gamut, drawing comparisons to Leonard Cohen, Ray Davies, Nick Cave, Tom Waits, Randy Newman and Jim Morrison. Still, he’s very much his own man. He “evokes real emotions, sometimes different ones in a single song” (Dan Reed, WXPN).

Two music videos Spottiswoode directed while at film school earned consecutive Student Emmys in Los Angeles. He later wrote and co-directed The Gentleman, a short film that played Slamdance and the BBC Short Film Festival before being picked up by the Independent Film Channel. Spottiswoode then went on to write several feature screenplays with the hope of directing them himself. However, he was too busy playing and recording with his band to fulfil the ambition. So he decided to write a musical instead...

Above Hell’s Kitchen, his rock opera loosely inspired by Mozart’s Don Giovanni, was first performed at a sold-out staged reading at Joe’s Pub in the New York Public Theater. It was then accepted by the highly competitive New York Musical Theatre Festival for six fully staged performances. Spottiswoode and his band won first prize for Best Orchestration. He has since written a slightly revised version set in London - Between The Angel And The Old Kent Road - as well as screenplay incarnations of both the New York and London stories. 

By a strange twist of fate, Spottiswoode’s dream of having one of his feature scripts produced recently turned into reality. His namesake, Roger Spottiswoode (Tomorrow Never Dies, Under Fire, Turner & Hooch) read two of his screenplays. Roger, who is no direct relation, liked them both and decided to option Either Side Of Midnight, a lyrical tale of four colliding stories set in New York City over one Friday night. The film was recently shot in New York and edited in London.

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Produced and Edited by Arts and Craft.
Theme Music: Sound Gallery by Dmitry Taras.

Transcript

Wouldn't it be incredible to have put your feelings into a song and and and make it sound beautiful and actually it's something I've come back to after all these years is that still the thing it's a very teenage thing in me he has been called a genius and a downtown ring leader by the New Yorker and hailed by a host of other luminaries he is a singer songwriter filmmaker and now a Dad joining us from across the pond is Spottiswoode my name is Nancy Magarill I'm a singer songwriter composer ER performer graphic and web designer and I'm Peter Michael Marino and I'm a writer producer Creator performer and educator we are new york-based artists you may or may not have heard of and we are here to introduce you to other artists you may or may not have heard of they're building a road from the Moon to the Sun then they'll build another road when that road done they're working so hard but they've only just begun building that road from the Moon to the

Sun everybody everybody wants to succeed everybody everybody longs to be free 

Jonathan not only are you a wonderful singer songwriter and director but you are total mench listeners Jonathan was one of our guinea pigs Before Peter and I really knew what we were doing with this show and he has graciously offered to come back for another interview with us and I'm really really grateful to you for that my pleasure and you're one of our first guests not living in the United States is he one of or is he one of well I I don't know who else we'll be talking to but right now well well he is the first guest that is not in the states that we're interviewing assuming that this is the first one that we're running okay okay good point good point and it's exciting because Jonathan is our first guest from overseas we're so International already Jonathan spottiswood what's happening what's happening uh I'm mixing a record uh an album oldfashioned album I'm making videos I've noticed in the past I've generally made sort of B+ level music videos what does that mean it means they're okay um you're just Plateau at B+ that's your well that's what I'm no it's exactly well I'm glad you're bring it up for I think I I would like to make at least one of these videos be better than B+ you know maybe even b double plus if I'm very lucky what makes a video more than B+ what what elements makes something more than b plus that's a good question I think concept commitment technical chops all of those things probably concept most of all but and a real commitment I think that's what it is I think in the past I've been like okay now the music's more important oh you know what just to make it easy for certain people to to click on it I'll give them some images to go along with it I'm being slightly it's not the full truth but sort that's that's close to the truth whereas I think this time I think at least with one of the songs I'd like to make it like no this is very special but how I do that um without spending lots of money is a good question so it's difficult to collaborate on something like a music video because you are a good person and want to pay people who are working for you I like the way you put it as a good person you know you think you think that um people would do it if I didn't pay them and then I'd just be mean yeah I I you know I guess I'm also cuz I live in London now and I did I did used to live in New York and I'd have more contacts in that regard in New York although I have contacts here in London just feel a little bit no I'm happy Pete I'm very happy to ask favors definitely oh good so I just uh it's just a little harder to ask favors in London in certain departments I suppose because you don't have the connections that you had in New York or is it that it's a different mindset in London I think it's the former I mean I do have my partner CLA who has been the videographer for most of the videos I've done and often takes the photographs and often helps with the editing and so thing that I'm excited about at the moment is that I'd wrote a musical many many years ago uh that play played in the New York musical theater Festival in 2010 which was exhausting and then a few years after that I thought oh I'll I'll adapt it into a screenplay because it's impossible to get musical theater produced it's Al impossible to get movies produced but you know maybe if I got two doubly impossible no it just it made sense I actually prefer in a way I mean I'm not a musical theater connoisseur but I think I prefer them on film often I love them on film so it was a lovely challenge to adapt the musical into a film and I I added more characters and it and then a couple of months ago the choreographer of the production in 2010 and her partner do you know Tony patelis fantastic actor um a Greek American actor he's Janine molinari's partner and he had read the stage directions at the the stage reading at Joe's Pub way back in the day they're part of a nonprofit theater company and they want to figure out a way to restage the musical so then I I've had this interesting job where I me I told them well I've actually since that production I've adapted into a film do you want to read the film script they did and now I've adapted the screenplay back into a theater piece now with more characters which you think would be and of course the whole point one of the points of having so few characters in the first place for the musical theater piece is that's the smarter way with theater these days but they actually were open strangely enough to actually almost wanted more characters because especi because she's a choreographer so anyway it was a lovely it's been a lovely kind of excuse to do that and they're going to I think they're G to have some in-house reading with their production company over the winter and we'll see what kind of film musicals are like on your list of like top three well I'm going to I'm going to betray how old I am so I love okay I'll I'll go for Oliver oh I love go for well I'm going to give you sound of music Westside Story and I'd also say and I never saw the St Stage production I really like in the Heights um and I'm I'm guessing I I might not have liked it that much if I'd seen it on stage I don't know I didn't love that show as much but I Gypsy was another one for me that was with Natalie Wood that was just so engaging uh Fiddler On The Roof is a really great musical as well oh hello film musical my my my daughter was just listening to that this morning oh look at that so uh clearly story driven is very important to you and as someone who writes music do you feel like stories are an important part of your music as well yes definitely I mean you know you know I mean I mean Nancy can speak to the this as a songwriter you know some songs will be very narrative driven and some songs might just be sort of ornamental or just have not that much to it but generally I'm probably more narrative than most songwriters and then the irony with that is people will often say oh that's you're so cinematic have you ever thought about getting your songs in movies well I have been lucky to have songs in movies but they're normally the least narrative driven songs because that there's too much too much narrative in a song you know they don't they want the the song to sort of have a Vibe generally not was let's talk about that a little bit about how you've gotten your songs in movies how has that happened for you different ways there have been a I've known a few directors who have been fans of my music and have asked for my music in certain um then I also made an album with a French label they are two two brothers the kin Brothers in Paris who um do music for films are quite successful and for commercials and it was actually in a way a library album they wanted to make a library of album of Americana music and they they approached me for uh and asked me if I wanted to be part of that uh and I had these it was a lovely excuse I had all these throwaway songs and I sent them like 12 or 13 songs and they said yes let's do these and then that actually they did a very good job they I I produced I recorded them in New York with Incredible Riley mcmah who we did a song a day and but the these French guys really knew what they wanted they said okay can you have banjo on this one you know harmonica on this one their choices were very good anyway they got those songs into a lot of different things but then finally and I'm rather sad about this I I've had songs it was a wonderful woman in La called Carol Su Baker who used to represent my songs she rep represented different artists and get would get their music to different music supervisors in La I mean it just it wouldn't you know if the music supervisors would say we need this this and this and so she would uh get songs a few songs of mine into films that way unfortunately she during this last actor strike she finally you know gave up H up H yeah hung up her boots so so that's a Pity because I was hoping to send this the music from this record this what I'm working to her so it's it's an ongoing question cuz I you know I don't I don't know many active directors at the moment but you have some income coming in from having placed songs in films are you with ASCAP BMI or I'm with ASCAP which is a I mean it's actually since I moved back to London I thought oh well I should maybe now join PRS here but you can't be a member of both you want to explain to our listener what you're talking about so these are so these are performance rights organizations that collect royalties on your behalf so you have so there's in America the the two most famous ones are ASCAP and BMI then but in every country there are the in France it's sasm there seesac seesac in America too yes and then uh I think it's PRS in in England yeah but anyway so they so I joined ASCAP shortly I arrived in after I arrived in New York back in the late '90s and uh they they were very good to me but it was useful more useful to me when I lived in New York so they they so they collect royalties uh for song on on both the publishing side because you you have a one has a publishing entity or unless you get bored out by some huge publishing company and then on the writer side so so people know that writers get a portion and the Publishers get a portion now the business has changed and this is actually one of the many things that have changed because of streaming because it used to be there's a strange quirk in that um it used to be that the uh publisher well it sorry it was always the case that with a licensing with the initial licensing fee so let's say a movie production house will want to pay a li to to use your song uh in a movie there the initial licensing fee only goes to the publisher then the uh but then the um the royalties subsequently get split sort of 5050 to the publisher into the and to the writer and then there could be different Publishers too so what's happened with the light with the streaming is that actually now a far higher percentage of the money that ever gets made on the project gets paid in the licensing initial licensing deal because the royalties now a far lower than they used to be so it's actually all the more reason to keep you publishing anyway so I do I do make some money from royalties through ASCAP but you know it's it's I'm noticing it's getting a little smaller every year at the moment you think it's because of streaming or do you think it's just that those they older movies or things like that I think it's mostly because I haven't had as many placements recently but streaming there are a couple of for instance one of the songs for my band um called all in the past was the name of the song was on I mean even that's actually f a while ago but for instance that was on a Netflix show Netflix show called bloodline that was a number of years ago but that was a big you know was the closing credits of a of a show that millions and millions of people watched and the licensing fee was good for that but there been hardly any royalties because it's been it's because it's on Netflix it's it's um yeah anyway streaming is kind of killing income for artist it's making it very difficult for artists to survive streaming it's a real shame streaming and then of course Spotify and then also and then at the same time uh live music venues are closing what gets you to go out and see music ah very good question well to I to go and see friends most of the time so it's different but I've never been the iron years I when I started writing songs I I just was interested in recording them because I was I actually never really enjoyed going out to see music with a few exceptions and I and it's a funny thing I I honestly I I go to a show and unless it's amazing on a narrative level I'm like oh I know what's going to happen after this song there's going to be another song and after that there's going to be another song and I'm and normally I'm I'm done after a few even if you know so I'm not thankfully audiences there are plenty still a lot of people who don't look at it that way and don't get me wrong sometimes I I you know I'll go out to a show and it's just what I need and I feel inspired but um I'm not the guy I try it's funny when I go out I'm praying that someone is going to inspire me and shake me up and make me want to go home right sing y especially when I was younger I always felt that the same kind of way as you where I was just like oh God this is so dull it's like you know especially sometimes when it was someone everybody was like this is the best thing and then you're watching it and you're like it's just the same crap everyone else is is doing but then you hear that thing that just blows your mind and makes you want to do it and that's for me why I go out to hear people even now like I don't go out as much as I used to of course I've actually learned through the pandemic that I'm much more introverted than I thought I was but I do think that being inspired matters and yeah I and the other side of what you said is I yes it could be very demoralizing that's the thing it's not just being not being inspired and it's it's particularly when you see a show where I mean of course everyone's got different taste we all know that it's a wonderful thing and I'm you know I'm learning that all over again with a 8-year-old daughter but is she a Swifty she's not actually so really I've said nothing bad about Taylor Swift and she last she um she sang in a choir at Regent Park this last summer it was great it was a real honor that she was invited to at the Regent Park open air theater she was invited to be part of the choir and she said oh no it's a we we're singing a t Swift medley and I'm like that's great isn't it I don't like Taylor Swift and I've never said a word I you know I'm and I've got nothing against Taylor Swift but but I still yeah I'm not quite sure where that came from well it's kind of obvious between you and Claire you know when you have parents who are artists you tend to have um nothing against Taylor Swift because you know I love her politically especially but she's more tuned probably to more artistic not um cliched more cliched music hm Poss I don't know it could just be that she's already kind of wants to Buck the trend I I don't know it's which popular bands are you not a fan of can we talk about that or actually like when you were younger when you were younger you know who was the rage and you were like yeah not for me uh well I don't the rage I've never been a lead Zeppelin fan that's how that's nting myself can I tell you that's what's going to I know you guys are going to hate me who I never liked that everybody was shocked I never liked the Beatles I never got it and then I will tell you though now that I'm older I love them you know I wouldn't be I wouldn't be playing music if it weren't for the Beatles that the Beatles were what got me in but you know what I I yeah know I'm not going to take the bait I'm not a hater Pete I'm not a hater no that's all right that's all right Pete you didn't like the Beatles no also I mean that's like a thing that I would never tell someone from the UK but it just so and I'm I'm living through it but yeah not a fan not not a fan don't single Beatles song on any of my devices it's not just the UK every musician here that I've ever worked with always references The Beatles it's a guy it's also mostly guys it is just a thing and I've always known it so I had to go back and listen and go okay let me get it and now I kind of asn't I kind of get it now what would you drop you know a, pounds on like who would you just go I have to go see this show I don't care how much it costs I'm going you know one for me I never spend that yeah okay let's say you had a th000 pounds to throw away who would to I had to SP oh who's still alive that would be a better concert yes cuz I because I would say Billy hold B Billy Holiday would be the person I would see and that's the one but she's dead sure sure I'm thinking about it so there's obviously no one jumping out um to me I would probably go and see not that I'm a big Vagner fan i' go and see the ring cycle oh okay I mean that's what I mean if I'm going to spend a you know if I'm gonna have to spend splurge on something I do something like that something like that I'm like uh uh yeah no I'm there do you go to the Opera in general not often once in a once in a blue moon I'm not a big Opera fan uh what is it about the ring cycle that that you well it's I just feel that's you know that's like you know have you read war in peace have you seen the ring cycle have you you know it's just something not not so I could say to somebody I've seen the ring I just sort of think okay I'd like to experience that that sounds like you know I I'm sure I'd get quite bored at certain points that you know I'm but I'm I'm it's terrible I can't at this point I can't think of any oh okay I would say Tom weights Tom weights oh okay I could see that sure you you kind of have a Tom weights Vibe about you music as Wells that would be the one comparison I would love to see him I've never seen him live my the best concert I've ever seen was Bruce Springstein I only hear great things about his concerts yeah he he was one of my first concerts as a kid and I was so blown away on every level first of all Born to Run for me is one of the best records ever written produced it hands down is just one of the most beautiful records I listen to it all the time to this day the whole album the the whole album oh I see I should okay good I'll put that on have you never listened to it not the whole album no oh my God and me let me tell you meeting across the river is one of the most profound songs at someday I want to do a cover of it it's just devastating and and just so poetic everything about that record is poetic and I'll tell you a quick story when I first started doing music Somebody I don't remember who it was introduced me to M AEL who was Springsteen first manager so I was so excited and he wanted to manage me and I was so thrilled and then we got together and Mike had long been out of the Springsteen Circle and out of the business and he I just realized that it wasn't a match through certain parts of the conversation and so I didn't end up working with him but there was a part of me that was so excited about the potential of working with the person who launched Springsteen's career who was part of that you know would have been amazing but I just didn't feel like it was the right fit yeah follow your gut I think that sounds right yeah have you ever had situations like that where you somebody's been wanting to work with you promote you manage you that you just were like this isn't right for me either of you sort of yes a little bit I mean what were the red flags that you saw that made you go wow this could be great on one level like talk about it a little bit if you would uh well one was I was in this band this is slightly different I was in a band in DC that we played in New York quite a bit cuz I used to live in Washington DC it was band called The zimmermans and it was amazing lead singer I wrote most of the songs but the lead singer was woman Lisa engelen Lisa e and we were just about to break up when there was several there was interest from several managers in including was it Lou Reed's ex-wife s play in the Mercury Lounge and that was not so much that there were red flags it was just like actually the red flag was being in the band and I out then there was a management company that that um helped my band the enemies spot us on his enemies for a bit and got us on the road and this wasn't so much red flag it was the the guy the guy had a he we I we had record it was insane we had recorded 31 songs what before he came on board I was like I had three albums we're going to make we recorded them in six days there was some overdubs to do and he had a perfectly reasonable suggestion which was why don't you actually just make one record of the best the best songs you know and I'm an Eclectic songwriter and so I just saw them as very you know and it wasn't a terrible suggestion I just thought to me it was well I think I was already such a pessimist I thought you know what I don't think that's G to make any difference so why didn't I just it's kind of like Becket you know fail better why I just fail on my own terms yeah rather than fail on someone else's which is a very negative way of looking at it but don't know I mean I I me it wasn't just a neg I guess I put a positive spin on it was I wanted to make the records I wanted to make yeah but that's not so much a red flag but yeah there have been some other promoters here and there obviously had red flags how long were you with the enemies I'm still with the enemies oh how did you how do you stay together for so long well I mean it's sort of like imagine owning a super yacht and it's in Dry Dock I don't have to imagine that you got your Super Y okay yeah well imagine owning a dinghy you know okay I mean it's it's yeah um you know you don't have to play I mean you know I mean okay the Rolling Stones don't have to play for a couple of years they're still the Rolling Stones but I mean yeah so they I mean uh they I still I will be I'm gonna be back in New York not till April but I'll play a concert with them so we've been together since 1997 wow how has that worked yeah I mean what yeah exactly your personalities match your um you all kind of finish each other's sentences you're in the same world musically like what is it that makes how many people are in the band well we're a seven-piece band oh my gosh yeah uh unfortunately one of the band members uh amazing the Riley mcmah has been fairly ill for for several years now I didn't know that so he hasn't he's also as well he only has a 2-year-old daughter and they and he and Nat his wife have moved to um Providence Rhode Island so so we actually haven't played a gig with Riley uh since since the pandemic and Riley was sort of your right hand like Riley was amazing he he is an amazing performer producer and just a great guy yeah yeah oh that's so heartbreaking to hear and he's produced yeah produced a lot of the band's records and some other records of mine yeah you just like seeing each other what yeah what is it we like playing music together I think I'm that uh it must be some kind of cult I must have done something that I think they all like playing my music maybe you should run for president here uh actually funny as you made that I just literally read for my patreon community played a song of mine that I wrote 20 years ago during the bush kry campaign called my own Ayatollah and it's about like I'm saying I feel like I've been running for president I've got to stop I'm going to be my own iota and a lot of us were in a band before that in DC I think having played together for a long time there's just a comfort it's it's deeper it's no longer transactional it's it's just like there's a we're a family yeah in a way even now and it's so and I think I think I'd like to Pat myself on the back I think I did a few things right I think early on it was sort of like giving people Freedom obviously to bring what they their own musici ship musicians ship to the table there were certain things I I had a few rules early on that were were good like like strange ones that sound quite sort of entric like was like we're only going to play my songs now that sounds like what otherwise if you have people other people in the band coming to you saying can we do my song they never did there wasn't a band before that then you got a problem yeah not only because you don't might not want to play it but if if then one person comes wants to play their song then someone else comes to want to play their song and then be like well I want to be in your band to be play don't play that song it doesn't hurt that you're a phenomenal songwriter and that almost there's probably no one that can write like you do either I I would imagine maybe Riley I don't know actually I'm speaking for the other band members but I never knew them in that way I think the thing is and I found something similar here in in in Europe with a few people I play with is that most I think that there is a certain like-mindedness I think they like playing different genres of music and I think that most and it's a marketing liability for me and for the band but I think that most whether they like it or not end up sticking to one genre and I think that can be get quite dull for some musicians looking back on it as blessed as I've been by having this seven piece band and what an incredible luxury if I were to speak to a young me in 1997 I would say don't form a seven piece band well do they all have an investment financially in the band or like do they have a percent they all get they all have a cut of publishing of the songs we oh that's great so the irony is is that actually most of the money I've made from my music has come from other songs oh really covers no from other from from um songs I've recorded without them songs uh songs other people uh the record I made with my ex-girlfriend bronwin she recorded also phenomenal singer songwriter so Che that a number of those songs got some good placements so anyway it's uh no was there ever a point with the enemies where you know somebody was dangling a a carrot in front of you that was like okay guys this is the one this is the one this is the one that's gonna Propel us into the stratosphere of top 10 songs in Rolling Stone or you know um there was well the dangling dangling carrot makes it sound like it's like a Temptation like I never felt so if anybody ever says to me you know one thing I really admire about you is you never sold out I'd be like I I don't think I ever had a chance to sell out you know if someone dangled something in front of me I probably would have taken it but um but it's interesting to mention it that that guy was talking about who wanted who wanted us to put out the best 10 songs from a bunch of Records he he got when he got behind us he got a radio Promoter on board and we played the noncom convention which sounds was the a convention for non-commercial radio stations which is a big deal around the country you know like wfuv is a noncom right so there are these those Market wxpn in Philadelphia so it's a big Brotherhood or Sisterhood or whatever it is of radio stations around the country and big AAA radio and it was the my worst nightmare was like we had to play in a hotel conference room one weekday afternoon in Philadelphia to these d JS yeah uh you know and I was like this is and it was going to be a half hour set no that and oddly enough that was the one time when when we did this half hour set and these DJs had' been and this boring conference maybe it wasn't boring for them for a couple of days they all gave us a standing evation wow wow that was the mo and I had people come up to me like we're playing you know will you play this festival and this Festival that was the one time oddly enough where I was like oh I could think this could run now and what happened well we got so we had a song that was playing a lot on on triaa at the time and then we got invited to three or four festivals around the country and we had the management company and we were on what was the World Cafe and we had a Booker and then it just got hard we were just traveling long distances sometimes we get these great reviews incredible reviews and in a local newspaper and you'd think wow and then we we'd show up at the venue and there'd be you know three or four people there and you know and a really now loud PA from upstairs that we could barely hear ourselves as we're playing and I felt guilty you know I was like taking you know I'm going I have a song I wrote around about that time called wild goose chase Expedition we' got an album called that where I felt like I was taking my band was more than just a wild goose chase it was a wild goose chase Expedition so uh and our Booker said no you got to keep playing but with a seven piece band felt like and you know maybe we should maybe we could have just brazened it out it's just it's just hard for morale when you've traveled hundreds of miles to play to you know five or six people and you know and don't get me wrong normally on any tour there'll be some Oasis some something incredible will happen somewhere where you go this makes it worth it but it gets hard did you ever consider just going out and playing solo as an opening act or any of that because you you're a phenomenal solo player in fact when I first saw you for the first time you were playing solo at the panty party you had played and just knocked my socks off it you were so good well I wish you told me that then well maybe you did say you did say nice things I cuz i' I feel like I've gone everything everything backwards because I really wasn't until I moved back to England until until after my daughter was born when I started going I should just play some concerts here in London uh on my own and then i' I only feel like it's in the last seven or eight years that I've actually feel like I've I'm a good solo performer your songs are so good that they work as solo pieces and band pieces and they and that that always struck me because I think that's a really important sign of a great song thank you I mean I I guess there's one thing playing a song or two playing a set I just it just was just something I needed you know again actually more than if yeah my advice would be less maybe not so much you need to have should have had a four-piece band rather than the seven piece band my advice would have been maybe actually in addition to having the seven piece band you should be playing solo yeah you know I played with Riley I played these Duo shows but I think yeah you learned so much playing solo it's really helped me as a band leader even all these years later did you say you play dvo shows like dvo the band did you just say these D shows Duo shows Duo shows maybe what is that I play Duo like a duet so the wonderful musician Riley McMan we're talking about I did spots with mcmah we SNM we did our SNM shows ah great great yeah when you said dvo I was like oh does do you open for bands like is that a thing you do or you're the people open for you or like maybe it's changed over the course of your career well not I mean apart from like uh apart from when we played a Dillan tribute we were the house band for Dillan tribute at Lincoln Center where everybody else on the bill was Uber famous and they were you know gosh apart from that I haven't really opened for many famous some people have become famous a lot of people have become famous I guess since then but well you also have a network of really phenomenally talented artists especially from New York that have made have done well we used to do these residencies where I would have people open for us but that was cuz I was curating the residencies but um you know I wish I wish I had some famous friends who would have me open for them in uh in large context oh I was wondering actually if you ever did want to be famous do you do you recall an age where you were like that's I'm just going to be a big star or did you ever think I just like some people want to be rich and famous and I realize I never wanted to be either and my dream came true um so what you know some people only want to be rich some people only want to be famous are you either of those no but it's a very good question because it's it goes to the heart of so much of you know a lot of these conversations I do remember when I was about 12 and I was listening to the Beatles forgive me I do remember I do remember singing with a microphone or fake microphone in front of a mirror so at that moment I think I'm maybe I just thought I was John or Paul but maybe I wanted to be famous then I don't know but no and in fact I love the Beatles I didn't want to be oh I want to be famous like the Beatles or I want to be rich like The Beatles was like it was like wouldn't it be incredible to have put your feelings into a song and and and make it sound beautiful that was and actually something I've come back to after all these years is that still the thing it's a very teenage thing in me that's the thing but I do think that in my 30s wasn't I wanted to become famous but and this is the Dilemma because everybody wants on some level to be successful now you can Define what success is and so and so we've all different measure of success but so that's the frustration is that I wish I were famous because it would allow not because I want to be famous but because it would then allow me to like for instance I've got a music then I could get backing for my musical or I wish I were famous because then oh I would love to be able to call up so and so and collaborate with that person I wish I could go knew that I was if I was going to go to some city in Europe when I play in Europe that you know more that I could guarantee at least a number enough people at a venue you can make a living at it yeah leveraging leveraging your leveraging your Fame to to to be able to continue creating art because you you can create art in a V we talked about this a little bit last time you can create art in a vacuum uh if if you if you want but I I suppose that gets very frustrating well I know it does because I'm one of those people who occasionally just create stuff and I'm like where is this going who is listen who cares about this right um but if I just had that one thing then then it would let it would help me get to the next thing to make that little thing that I'm doing in my bubble a more public thing yeah which would be you know yeah it's the flow I mean I mean I I I often find myself getting deep into working on a script or working particularly on a recordings and and I love it I love it and then it's like it's that period when it's like oh now what am I going to do with it how am I going to put this out into the world that I find it becomes an existential question it's like wait a minute why was I spending so much time making this trying to make this so good to a large degree I I seem to be okay with that um okay with spending a lot of time doing something that's where the main audience is me yeah obviously that it's more than just that but it's like I uh and that may not be healthy probably isn't but I found a way in my weird life in the way the way my life has come together where that H that seems to happen at some periods but I don't [Music] regret all those hearts are stol

[Music] each was [Music] returned each touched my [Music]

soul and I can't walk with you on the path to Jesus I'm happy in my Ry I'm sorry what is the craziest experience you've had as an artist or craziest interaction you've had with something or someone else oh crazy bad yeah course I can tell you crazy bad and uh you know and I think the statute to limitations have run out at this point great I think it was an Easter show at the living room on lllo street and we were playing we had just gone to the stage where we kind of gone backwards to go forwards cuz we we were playing bucket gigs Buck gigs past the bucket but we were making lots of money on these bucket gigs and selling CDs so it was better than when we were playing like a nicer venues like the fairs or something like that or Joe's pu and we were getting new crowds so it was it was okay this is working we playing this double set like midnight on a Saturday Saturday or maybe it was Easter Sunday it was packed because of course because it's a bucket G because it was the living room it was like there were other people from the band audience from the band before that were there so it was already packed we started playing and we had lots and lots of people at the back trying to get couldn't get in because there were people sitting there in front and all front of the room and um there was a woman two rows back and there were table seating who was incredibly loud and we played the first song and it was like and I said do you mind being a bit quieter or play another song she was louder and louder and then we played the song you might remember it was one of these songs where Riley mcmah the guitar play goes into this incra crazily loud solo called Olivia really this rocker and in the midst of like we were playing at a th000 dbel I could still hear her and it was driving me nuts and I and I did this most ridiculous thing I I it's and it's a murder song it's about a guy who's going to M help murder This Woman's husband to be with her it's like an obsess song about Obsession so there's this long solo and I and I she I can still hear her I'm like how and I'm playing my guitar and I'm like I and I get down onto my knees Riley's playing the and I'm noodling on my guitar and I I kind of Sidle my way on my knees while playing the guitar through the front row to the second row and I don't know I mean I I think I I I'm not I'm not proud of this but I'm saying this I start chewing the bottom of her jeans I'm like pulling I'm just trying to get her to shut up I'm just I'm so angry you're that's crazy it is crazy and she still will keep she keeps talking and then I do so and then I'm I'm like she will not shut up and I I say I hope the statue is limitation I I pick up bottom the the a chair leg and I'm lying underneath it and tip her over I this is phys this is physical violence I'm talking about yes she lands on top of me the whole band is um now oddly enough they're not worried about her or about me they're worried about my Martin guitar that I'm playing of course yeah I then crawl back to the stage still playing the the this imp pandemonium on stage with the with this with the soloing she followed me and I don't know what she's I think she just starts pummeling me on my back like I'm the the solo keeps going it seems in keeping with the subject of the song right she then she and her her friends then leave other people come in and take the table I get up sing the next part of the verse but wait where is she is she still on top they've left they no no she then after hitting me she goes back to her table and she and her friends then go okay we're going okay they leave other people then take the table we I sing We Sing the end of the song I sing the end of song we play the rest of the set and I am honestly I it's like I feel like I've had a nervous break I'm like oh my God what just happened this is terrible I cannot believe I did that I cannot this is and I'm walking out of the room and uh the bass player's girlfriend who I didn't see the altercation because it was so crowded said that guy that was one of your best sets ever oh my gosh I had to walk around the block I had to walk around the block no but but I mean that's that's crazy Jonathan this is your next this is your next music video you you've got to purge this demon I mean I'm glad we gave you the space to share this and and relive it uh but I think this is your next music video but whenever I read about like celebrities and Paparazzi and stuff like that I just think I I don't get judgy I go okay yeah nowadays you have to first check to make sure that there isn't a mental health thing going on yeah so you're playing a song You're entertaining and you're also doing math on oh maybe this person that's impossible right now you know has some kind of Mental Health Challenge so how can I honor that without killing them well I actually it's funny I'll tell you a quick story when I my first professional job as a performer was at Kings Dominion amusement park in um oh dwell Virginia and we did eight shows a day and at the beginning of the show we would walk into the audience and we talk with everybody and and you know you have this whole thing going to get them excited and nobody was saying anything and we sit on their laps and all the stuff not one word so like an idiot I go what's the matter are you all deaf or something oh no no they were yeah they were deaf and I realized it and I was I spent the whole show trying to make up for that comment it was so horrible but it was also like no one told us we had no idea you know you just don't know what's going on is the point right you don't know what's going on with people that was different this woman was probably drunk off a rocker yeah no no no it was whatever it was it wasn't there yeah I drove home from college one time for a break it was like eight hour drive from Buffalo and when I pulled up to my family's house in Long Island the the family was standing on the front porch looking like The Adams Family just like d and I literally got out of the car with all my stuff and I was like what's the matter somebody die or something oh no yeah don't ever say that cuz it's probable that your grandmother died that morning don't don't ever say that oh god well on that happy note we're going to let you go Jonathan to have jonath spot wood thank you for giving us your time and thank you for giving the world your music and your art at at I'm

beautiful everyone be good to me do the

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