Gabrielle Lansner - filmmaker and choreographer

Gabrielle Lansner is a critically acclaimed, socially conscious choreographer and award-winning filmmaker. Her latest short film, “I Am Not Ok,” is currently part of the Brooklyn Artists Exhibition at The Brooklyn Museum until January 26. On this episode, we chat about her friend Tiffiney Davis’ heartbreaking Facebook Live post that sparked the film, her early Avantgarde-arama influences, and the collaborative process.   https://www.gabriellelansner.com/

-------------------------
Gabrielle Lansner is an award winning filmmaker, choreographer, and pro- ducer whose work is influenced by her background in choreography and performing. Her films have screened at dozens of festivals worldwide and garnered multiple awards. 

Her latest short film, I AM NOT OK is an experimental dance film inspired by the words of Tiffiney Davis, Executive Director of the Red Hook Art Project in Red Hook, Brooklyn. It is currently on view at the Brooklyn Mu- seum’s, Brooklyn Artists Exhibition until January 26th, in the Video Room. 

In 2020, she wrote and directed her first short narrative film, Lullaby to Love. She is also in the early stages of development for her first narrative feature film, STILL LIFE, which she has penned as well. 

Her film, the birch grove, 2015, had a successful festival run, screening at the Newport Beach Festival, the Cannes Short Film Corner, and Dance on Camera at Lincoln Center, to name a few. The film won the Grand Jury Prize and Best Experimental Film at the Underexposed Film Festival in Rock Hill, S.C. and composer, Joel Pickard, won Best Original Score from the International Fine Arts Film Festival in Santa Barbara. 

learn more at https://www.gabriellelansner.com/about/gabrielle-lansner

------------------------
Produced and Edited by Arts and Craft.
Theme Music: Sound Gallery by Dmitry Taras.

Transcript

Gabrielle Lansner: my work is very emotional very psychological and very gestural and so I was like oh my God here I am I can control where the eye is going where the audience's eye is going and it just seemed like the right fit and pretty much I mean it sounds a little silly now but it was like right then and there I was like I'm never doing a live show again 
 
Nancy Magarill: she is a choreographer turned award-winning filmmaker who has amassed a body of deeply moving socially conscious work 

Peter Michael Marino: we are thrilled to chat with Gabrielle Lansner today 
 
my name is Nancy Magarill I'm a singer songwriter composer performer graphic and web designer 
 
and I'm Peter Michael Marino and I'm a writer producer Creator performer and educator 
 
we are new york-based artists you may or may not have heard of and we are here to introduce you to other artists you may or may not have heard of 
 
Tiffany Davis: but my son got to go out there and put his life on the line to protect his own con I am not okay I am not okay when my son got to call me and tell me NYPD was start in trouble and doing things to people I am not okay how do you sleep how do anyone sleep knowing that lives are being taken because of their skin color if I could write this [¬†__¬†] in fire I will write this [¬†__¬†] in fire 
 
That was an excerpt from I am not okay a film by Gabrielle Lansner who is joining us today gab let's start by talking about how this film developed the Genesis of it was it was at the end of May in 2020 during covid uh it was right after George Floyd was killed and there were a lot of protests going on and there were protests in downtown Brooklyn and I maybe it was the next day I was looking at Facebook and my friend Tiffany Davis who runs the Red Hook art project in Red Hook Brooklyn had posted uh a Facebook live post she was in her kitchen and she was speaking to her phone and to her community to whoever who was going to watch and it was uh a sermon it was a rant it was a plea it was about her fears for her son actually being at the protest and and then generally about growing up black in America and growing up black male in America and she ran the gamut of emotions she talked about anger and fear and love and how communities and her community needed to come together to move through this and asking you know what what do we do and how do we prevent you know and move through all this the racism that exists and it just really hit me very strongly a because I know her and just because it was so true and and potent uh so when I heard it I I thought about since it was covid and we were I was isolated and I had made a piece about the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission almost 15 years ago in 200 well now it's 20 years ago I remember that piece I was balling my eyes out when I saw that it was so beautiful and and that that piece too focused on a lot of African mothers who had lost their children uh during apartheid and I just just thought oh what if I put her words on onto on top of some of the choreography I had made and I had a little a little video clip um on my computer and so I messed around with that and and I thought wow this is this is very powerful and maybe I can do something with this during covid so I I thought about it the first thing I did was call Tiffany to say I'm possibly thinking about doing this thing a film and can I use your words and she said absolutely uh so that was the beginning of it and then a few months later I reached out to h a performer named Pat Hall who I've collaborated with who was also in this piece called salt chocolate which was the piece about South Africa and I decided to make a dance duet between a mother figure and a son and a son and use Tiffany's words and then I also my sister Erica lansner is a freelance photographer photojournalist and she had been going to all the protests and so I asked her if she could send me images that I could use that I could fold into The Narrative of what I was making so that's how it how it began and then I also reached out to uh the composer Philip Hamilton who I had also done many collaborations with and he was on board and uh we got into the studio during covid with our masks I had to audition daier housef who plays the sun um I had to you know I had to have auditions with masks and then like well maybe take your mask off for two seconds so I can see you and I'll Stand Back and but you know we had many rehearsals with masks on and then finally things eased up a little bit you knew that you were creating this project to be a film yeah absolutely right especially during Co nobody was thinking about live performances at that time no and I I actually stopped doing live performances completely in 20 9 so I've just been making my work my dance theater work just for film what sparked that change it was it was a little by accident I was going to do a project with a friend of mine who was a sculptor who had a I know a 7,000 square foot Studio space Upstate New York and we talked about doing a film with dance with his kinetic he had been making these kinetic sculptures so we talked about that so I gathered a group of dancers together and we made a lot of material and then somewhere along the line I would I just sort of thought oh I'm not quite sure if this is going to work with with his work right now and he was very generous and he said oh just go ahead use my studio if you want to shoot in it and he recommended a camera person and so it was sort of like my first um you know foray in well not quite my first but I had a two-day shoot and when I got behind the camera I realized that my work is very emotional very psychological and very gestural and then I and so I was like oh my God you know here I am I can control where the eye is going where the audience's eye is going and it just seemed like the right fit and pretty much I mean it sounds all silly now but it was like right then and there I was like I'm never doing in a live show again amazing and and I didn't oh my gosh I love I love when the Muse does that you know right right you can't always rely on it to like bring us inspiration but it is nice when it's like no no no no no stop stop stop yeah it's like when you know this is what you have to do you're you're it's almost like I'm put here to do this I I don't know if it was quite you know I don't know that dramatic but there's so many layers of you know as you know producing work in New York City and getting an audience and it's it can be exhausting and expensive and I was just like wait a minute maybe I should just try this and I did you mentioned your collaborator and some young theater person was asking me advice just last night about like how do you find the right collaborators and I'm like it just takes forever just know that it takes forever and then you won't question why is it not happening how does how does that resonate with you I guess I've been lucky you know it's just it it seems like it's it's all sort of happened in an organic way uh you know where I've met somebody and then I'm like oh hey you want to work on this and then I end up work working with someone for 20 years years Pat Hall had come to see one of my earliest Works in like 2020 and she actually came to me and said I want to work with you who is who is Pat hall for those Pat Hall is the the female dancer performer in the film and she is an educator she's a performer she also has been teaching an amazing uh afro Caribbean dance and movement class for over 30ish years so I first met Pat in 1986 because I went to the class for a couple of months and then in 2020 I was making a piece called Frankie's wedding and one of my performers said to me well this is my rehearsal availability and for the most part I absolutely cannot rehearse on Saturdays unless it's like Tech or absolutely necessary because I go to a dance class with Pat Hall and I was like oh my God Pat Hall so after we finished that production I started going to her class and but she came to see this piece and and so we talked about our desires to work together and then the time came that it was like oh I'm doing this piece about South Africa and and then also the composer for that oh no was actually was while maybe I was rehearsing that work at these Studios on 42nd Street and next door to me Philip Hamilton who was the composer for I am not okay was next door and I was having trouble like hearing and Counting some music one day and I was like uh Phillip could you just come over here and help us with this so that and so that's how I met Phillip and then I started following his work and going to hear his work and so then the next year well anyway when the time came we started working together was that before the Tina Turner piece no that was that was before but the Tina Turner piece was the first time I worked with Phillip are you uh shooting the whole thing from different Ang Les or are you you know oh this segment I'm shooting this way this segment I'm I'm setting up this way what's that process like so yes we do sort of storyboard the entire piece and decide okay you know yes we're shooting from this angle and this angle and this part of the room and so that's all yes that's all choreographed before we we start shooting and who's we in shooting well with the the uh the Director of Photography and in this this in this film we had a steady cam operator so I'm you know talking to Barbie about what I want and the steady cam but and then she's communicating to the steady cam you know what what to do and then I also know when I want to have closeups and you know sometimes I want to just see a hand sometimes I just want to see a face uh we did some work from way we way above because we were in this huge huge Loft party space and Green Point uh called serat Studios and so yeah it that that is that's all plann planned out you're choreographing the camera moves as well it's all it's all like this great dance captured on film yeah because I think a lot of folks might think oh it's it's a film of a dance not that like the dance is like actually the medium that the story is being told through uh in a in a cinematic fashion well that and the text right and and and the spoken word the spoken word and then we shoot everything and then we made a segment of dance material that was about 10 minutes long and we well we just figured out what the shots were but then when I start editing it's not like I'm editing ABCDE e it's xybc 21356 it's sort of like just putting it all together and see it's Rec choreographing and you know it's um and I like I like the process a lot yeah yeah do you get into one of those um like Nancy you probably do too right editing this you get into that sort of like editing hole you just go down this and suddenly you're like I forgot to have lunch how what this is a little different with a podcast because it's still it's very linear and you want to keep the conversations going whereas I think what Gabrielle is talking about is you're really open to anything you can put anything anywhere as long as it tells the story and helps move it along which I think is really exciting because you probably shoot a ton of footage that you can't use exactly or don't use yes exactly yeah let me ask you a question though like what gave you the confidence that you felt after never having done any film work that you could actually put films together where did that come from just a desire to do it I guess just the desire to do it I mean I have to say the the first the the very first thing I did what was the name of that um well you might never have seen it actually I think I called it dreaming in tears and well no the very first thing I did didn't see the light of day at at all but I was that's a great Title by the way for a piece thank you but I did decide that I wanted to edit it into something and I actually I worked with an editor and I was just determined like I am making something with this material and now you know I'm trying to think maybe that is dreaming and tears which never really went anywhere I don't even know if I submitted it to festivals but there was also some issues with the with the quality of the camera work so I decided I wanted to re-shoot a lot of it and then work with with work with a different Director of Photography so I actually went back the a year later and in a different space and reshot it and and then it was sort of this long thing it was about 20 minutes long different stories and a couple people said to me this isn't working and one person said to me maybe you should pull out the separate stories So I listened to her and I guess out of that came a short more just abstract dance piece called wishing and then oh and then also uh dad which was um Paula mcgonagal was in it it was a solo so I took out two sections from this larger work I don't know I think it's it's also I was fortunate to meet and hire people CU I don't I don't do the camera work myself and I you know found people that I could communicate with and collaborate with and I just I guess I just I don't even know if I thought about it I just was like oh I can I'm doing it yeah and then you know things got a little bit more you know sophisticated you know with also just technically and one one of my films we shot out of town and that was sort of that was sort of a huge project which I don't think I realized you know when when the um when my producer was like Gabrielle you don't realiz you know so much Logistics yeah so much what is your crew like when you're filming a movie like what do you feel like you need to have as a crew just that everybody is on board and working and having a good time and uh but I mean what like what kind of pieces do you have like do you have a so you have a cinematographer or Director of Photography what what are the like what is the team that works best for you when you're filming well I have a a DP the the camera person the Gaffers the assistant gaffer the assound person can I ask a question what is it gaffer they take care of the electrical issues and I'm not even 100% sure to um a wardrobe person uh yes so um makeup hair makeup hair hair and makeup sound um a wardrobe person if we needed on on this one I actually did the costumes and it was only two of them uh but yeah for I did a one of my films the Birch Grove which was done in 2015 we did it out of town um so we we you know the producer had to had to find lodging and you know it was a whole thing catering and right and of course you have a set designer and a set designer an in-house set designer my husband Dean toer aha it's not so shabby no yeah he did the set he did the original set for sopranos and then he's done he did Law and Order uh for law Law and Order Special Victims Unit for 21 Seasons wow as the production designer amazing yeah wow it's pretty amazing when did you um when did the word choreographer first enter your you know lexicon your Lexicon how old were you where were you how that's how this happened uh probably in high school I mean I've been dancing since I was 10 and then in high school I guess I was doing some choreography workshops with pearl Lang who uh was a modern dancer who came out of the Martha Graham company and you know for my I don't know why that sounds amazing I've had you don't even realize until many years later like oh my God no no no I it was yes I mean it's so crazy that you'd had that experience I started taking dance classes at juliard Preparatory when I was in fifth grade and my first and I think one one of the reasons I went there because we had a family friend named Pat Birch who sure yeah went on to you know is a you know Wonderful Wonderful Broadway choreographer and movie Hair yes yeah am I right the movie Hair gree gree gree Greece Greece absolutely good going Pete that's all right yeah so I I start Twi his hair sorry yeah um Pat Burch like U I think leader of the pack maybe also on Broadway was there oh I don't I don't know we'll have to that's a song is that's not a song no there was a musical the P that used all of that it was very much in the world of Greece so I think maybe so so you you um you knew what a choreographer was at an early age already absolutely I mean I I for high school I don't know why anyway we I I did a senior Dance Project and I choreographed a couple solos and Duets or well you have a pretty artistic family your mother was an artist your father was an editor right yes so her father was the editor of Newsweek yeah so she you had you were surrounded by a lot of art sounds like you and Erica basically got a lot I mean when her mother passed away I was at their house and the house was full of art of art that she had done and it was unbelievable to see this like being surrounded by that as a child I can't imagine that wouldn't affect you in some way and sort of inspire you and she was a wonderful artist yes yeah so you you started choreographing in school and then did you always know you were like that this is what I want to do or were you thinking of you would do something else no I always knew that it was what I wanted to do at at some point during college I I did a summer workshop um with some experimental theater companies and when I did that I was like oh I don't want to dance anymore I want to do experiment yeah of course you did yeah so I act I uh I I was at purchased College in the dance department and then I transferred to NYU had has an experimental Theater Wing so of course they do I I transferred there and and we just did workshops with different and it was the Heyday of experimental theater and my first group of teachers it was then it was um Spalding gray and the Performing Performance Group oh my God the Performing performing garage and I just went up to them and said I want to work with you so I became their stage manager while I was in college smart and then ended up working with them for two or three years after I left school and then what and then I I think I just started going back to some dance classes and I I met a choreographer named Charlie Molton who was making work and I you know my Hope was that I I could perform with the Performing garage and that really wasn't happening they basically had one female performer and so I I started going back to dance class which I can't remember if I stopped completely but I I started going back to the Cunningham studio and then I started working with Charlie Molton and then I guess Charlie I don't know how it initially happened so before ps122 for the performance space 122 became ps122 Charlie Molton myself Tim Miller Peter Rose and John burn who I guess both Peter Rose and John burn are are no longer here were using the space I don't remember if we even paid money but it was part of a community center Keith Harring was in the building wow there were 20 artists and there was an old huge old Auditorium room we scraped that floor and I I and uh Charlie and and Tim Miller and the rest of us we were the first ones in ps122 and uh and I was going to community we had Community meetings to go to and they started doing different performance events avangarda Rama that oh Charles Dennis who ran avangarda Rama so yes and I would so I started you know choreographing again so yeah that was sort of the beginning of me choreographing in in New York you're making me so nostalgic like I'm actually like I feel my shoulders like sinking down to the ground I'm suddenly just like I need to go to Canal jeans you know like I'm so down there I'm so down there right now my gosh it's just like how amazing I I want to see the movie of what you just described I I want to be there I think I think I I got into it like you know I came to New York in like ' 87 so like I think I got like just a tail end of that awesome aess that was happening you know I came in ' 85 in January 2nd '85 and I I had a little bit of it too but it definitely started changing pretty soon after but that was a different time in New York like how cool that you grew up did you live on the upper west side yeah yeah 80th Street yeah yeah but it was a very different time in New York it was like the beginning of I mean that was when PBS was starting when all this stuff but I I think it's fascinating that there was company called avangard arama but it's just such a weird name for avangard anything right Alan Gama it seems like right now it would be a show so yeah it was also around the same time as like there was a place called dantia you know it's it just felt like I think there was even a gaseteria or I think there still is a gaseteria in in Australia I've never heard I can't believe I know this and I don't know if that doesn't sound so great gaseteria as an as an older woman that's like a little like oh it's I think it's for for automobiles yes gas station it's a gas station do you know there are people who have never pumped uh gas has anybody here never pumped gas oh no I grew up pumping well TW 20 20 years ago my my niece's cousins who were eight didn't know what a match was whoa wait H how did they find out that's what I want I said something about lighting a match and they were like what or like we no we don't use a match or or I think it was like what and it was like we have the clicker a lighter Clicker yeah like one of those big lighters probably like yeah go I actually have one I found one on the floor out in the hallway the other day so I actually have a big lighter in my apartment now which I'm like oh this is great but yeah I have matches I don't know how anybody doesn't have matches they're also you see them used in movies and television and books like they're they've been referenced in other ways right um at the event I was at last night uh it was U it's like a drawing for independent theater companies and everybody goes to this thing every year and they rais some money and each company gets like a thousand dollar to just pay their artists it's [ __ ] great that is great and I never I never get it met someone who wins what is it called it's uh Indie space is the is the organization that puts this uh event together every year called the big give um and uh it was at Chelsea Factory great great venues it was just awesome anyway so they have these buckets that they reach their hands into to pull out the names of these you know 300 theater companies there's like a hundred people are going to win this thing w so everyone's just like please let it be me oh my friend won it yay you know come on anyway they have this one bucket that is for companies that have been putting their name in for over 10 years and have never won and the name of that bucket is they're very Equitable I mean it's ridiculous how Equitable this organization is the name of that bucket was the Susan Luchi bucket oh my God that's hysterical so clever right so the host of it I mean the woman who put it together Randy Barry gets up there and she's announcing all the things she goes the Susan Luchi bucket and I just realized most of the people in this room don't even know who Susan can you please raise your hand if you know who sus and she was totally right because you know there's us old people who have done been doing Indie theater in New York since the beginning of time and then there's also new people and those new people really should have no they should not know who Susan Luchi is I I didn't get all like you don't if you want to be in the Arts you have to know your your history Susan Luchi is is is arts history she's arts and New York history well she is New York history correct it is kind of amazing that we grew up on soap operas and they're almost non-existent now like all of us watched that and it was just that was all that was on in the afternoon right that's yeah everybody really cared about these two characters named Luke and Laura getting married right that's amazing the power of Storytelling though in a way isn't it that really everybody actually cares enough to watch their their marriage yeah on TV thinking it's live probably too yeah so Gabrielle let's talk about how you got I am not okay into festivals yes so I want to swing back to I am not okay because it's playing in um at the Brooklyn Museum until January 26th right yeah it's it's at the Brooklyn Museum and the Brooklyn artists exhibition um and it's in honor of the the Museum's 200th anniversary and the film is there are over 200 artists in the show and they've also built out a small video room so there are seven or eight other video artists and the film is on a loop and plays at 11:30 12:30 throughout the day until about 6:00 yeah that's wonderful and what how did you get into that Festival they had an open call and I saw that online or on Instagram and uh I sent my film in oh my gosh this is great I mean it's such a perfect time for this film I can't even imagine that first of all I think it should be shown everywhere I know we were talking about potentially aiming to take it to schools and the last time we spoke about that what um has there has there been any traction on that well we're we're actually going to be at forom University um on January 22nd we're going to screen the film and then Pat is going to do a dance and percussion Workshop as well wow yeah wait does she teach percussion as well or Philip going to be there with her no no no no um we have a drummer in class named Pam Patrick so I they're they will both be there and teach a workshop back to collaborating with Pat and collaborating with the other dancers in the piece how does that work how do you start devising there's that word devising your pieces with this one we began by list listening to Tiffany's words a lot and I mean listening to the recording and being in the room together and then I have each each performer write down down verbs very active verbs about how they're feeling about what they're hear in this case about what they're hearing and the subject matter so they write down a list of verbs um like to love to fear to hate to despise to choke to frustrate and and then we they do a lot of improvisation in the in the room around these verbs make making short phrases and gestural phrases and then I look at them we look we look at them all together and sometimes we learn each other's phrases I'm doing most of the watching and the directing and so a movement vocabulary is developed out of these these these verbs in many of my other pieces I've been adapting short stories and plays so there's character development that happens in the same way we also yeah so that was sort of the the beginning of that at some point um I Know Tiffany came to rehearsal a couple of times just for us to disc discuss the material and how we were feeling yeah so that's sort of the beginning of the choreography so when you say that you devise a language basically is it really that you all understand it through movement or do you ever call it do you have like Call It by name or is it just more of like the the anger movement or how do you how do you communicate with each other that that's what you want for this piece or whatever well we're we're working with so someone makes a phrase or a bunch of gestures around to choke or to to love so so that's how these elements are are named and then I so I I put them you know together sort of put them together yeah so you're really working with their physicality completely and their character work how they dance how they move and incorporate that and then you can devise the story that tell for Tiffany's piece obviously that tells the story through all those different movements I am not participating and creating movement and I'm not telling them to do this or you know I'm gesturing here with my hands and I have not for all the pieces I've all the film pretty much all the pieces I've made everything is coming out of the performers wow yeah and and they get credit so I don't you know say just I'm the choreographer yeah you know Nancy we have that word devising has come up a few times and um I think Gabrielle put it really that's a good way to look at it they're still a director there's still someone who's guiding the ship of ideas you know oh ABS absolutely I mean I'm I I am the Uber boss yeah yes but you you have to go into a a situation like that as an artist very open you have to be very open to you know to look bad actually right to to to to you know um check yourself constantly right because you're contributing and maybe I'm contributing too much or too little I mean it's a very vulnerable place to be and it's so lucky you're you're always fortunate when you find collaborators who let's say I have this idea let's just vomit it out and see what happens and no one feels stupid you know and they're trusting you have to build a layer of trust because otherwise um because people are taking a lot of time to do this right and they're you know I yes and and the material is is very sensitive and um triggering and yeah so there there is and was a yeah a lot of just trust and honesty and support for you know everybody yeah and I also think it's interesting that you know Uber boss you're a white woman and all of your team basically with the exception of Dean I guess are not right which is really interesting you know I mean not not the I mean the the shooting crew was diverse also but yes yeah so you're molding a story about their lives MH which is very interesting what makes you so empathic about because every all the work that I've seen you do is very politically maybe political is not the right worst but it's so it's very social driven socially driven and very much about change and pointing out so much of what is gone on historically you've dealt with the Holocaust you've dealt with a partti you deal dealt with Tina Turner which is not as as um socially conscious but you really gravitate towards that kind of work where does that come from I don't know I think it's just what I've yeah I I it's what you know it's just what it's I it's just what I've done and what I've been drawn to and the relationships and the different people I've met and do you think that if you got if someone asked you to direct a Broadway musical you would want to do it or or a big Broadway musical movie would you even would that be something that would even appeal to you possibly yeah I did not expect that me either so you I might I might have a lot of self-doubt about my ability to do it doesn't mean you don't want to do it so it's really that this is what you gravitate towards but you're open to doing and I mean look you the way that we met was we did a 10-minute Musical and was not a socially conscious musical at all although kind of had a heart but not you know not all my I don't know you know some of some of the film work have been about relationships and life and death and yeah but it always has a weight to it it's you don't do fluff yeah you're not a Fluff director or or choreographer Creator you know we're going to see your movie on the road great that's where we're gonna see your movie right we're it's gonna be playing all over at festivals because you're using well it's been in festivals for over two and a half years so yeah well we're going to make a date to go out to the Brooklyn Museum to see it maybe you should come with us Pete that I will do if you can yeah yes it would be really nice all right we'll see you there okay great hey thanks for checking us out links to today's guest can be found in the show notes don't forget to subscribe like us rate US and tell all your friends about arts and craft