Tiffiney Davis - Red Hook Art Project

Tiffiney Davis is the powerhouse co-founder of Red Hook Art Project (RHAP) which provides free, high-quality art programs to local youth. She is also the inspiration (and voice) behind the dance film, “I Am Not Ok.” On this episode we talk about her journey through the New York shelter system, discovering the arts, and her mission to change the lives of young people. https://www.redhookartproject.org/

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Tiffiney Davis, a resilient Black female community leader, co-founded Red Hook Art Project in 2009 with a vision to provide her artistically gifted children and others in underserved communities with opportunities for growth. Today, as Executive Director, she leads RHAP's efforts to empower students through free art and mental wellness programming, fostering a safe and inclusive space where they can thrive. Her ability to unite the community has been pivotal in RHAP's success, securing $1 million in federal funding through partnerships with 11 local organizations and advocacy efforts, enabling the expansion of programming and establishment of a dedicated studio space. This collaborative approach has been instrumental in addressing community needs, particularly during crises like the COVID-19 pandemic.

At RHAP, they prioritize holistic education, offering free homework help, visual art lessons, and music lessons that foster skills in leadership, teamwork, and social justice. This integrated approach prepares students for success academically, artistically, and personally. In response to the pandemic, she successfully transitioned RHAP to a virtual setting, hosting over 100 classes and providing meals to address food insecurity. Recognized with awards like the 2023 Woman of Distinction Award, her commitment to the community highlights dedication to arts education, community development, and civic engagement. Featured on the Kelly Clarkson Show as a “RAD HUMAN,” she advocates for the transformative power of the arts and creating inclusive spaces where every child can thrive, emphasizing the importance of breaking barriers and fostering community for all individuals to reach their full potential.

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Produced and Edited by Arts and Craft.
Theme Music: Sound Gallery by Dmitry Taras.

Transcript

part of me is showing up for that little girl nobody showed up for and the other part of me is seeing the same situations happen with our young people that I was facing when I was younger and I I can't understand it I can't process it 

she is the founder of the Red Hook art project who is devoted to helping her neighborhood Thrive through ART and education she's also the inspiration behind the film I am not okay we are thrilled to have Tiffany Davis join us today 

my name is Nancy Magarill I'm a singer songwriter composer performer graphic and web designer 

and I'm Peter Michael Marino and I'm a writer producer Creator performer and educator 

we are new york-based artists you may or may not have heard of and we are here to introduce you to other artists you may or may not have heard of you 

looks like you're in your workplace right now yes I'm in my studio let's talk about your studio the work that you do with the kids the success stories that you have with the kids and the kind of art that you're doing with them is it all um Fine Art so R hook art project we do all different disciplines within the Arts whether that's Visual Arts whether that's Ceramics music you know we touch on a whole bunch of different things all depending on how the artists come to us we meet every child where they at and as you know every child is not the same artist so we like to make sure that we have a variety of teaching artists and a variety of materials and lesson plans that they can tap into so that way they don't feel like they have to come to a place like you know sometimes with the doe it structured to a class and they have to stick to that lesson plan but trying to meet every child where they at and like having them own and on their own leadership and their creativity skills is something that I am really excited about at rap because that's what we do so we even go from 3D printing to laser cut to Button making all depending on what the student requests are so we survey our students and we ask them what what do they want to you know what do they want to try wow oh my God that's fantastic what would have been your answer if you were their age and someone asked what do you want to try oh I was always in fashion so I would I would have said teach me how to sew teach me how to crochet how to knit so I can make these beautiful items that no one else have wow are you still doing that I do not do that anymore I during the pandemic I was doing a little bit of that but then I stepped back into creating um self-care products so meaning like uh bath bombs and natural uh soaps and sugar scrubs and was my thing growing up so I went back into that but as we got back out of Co I'm now kind of took a step back from that and just again working with every child meeting where they at well it's a lot of work to do all those products I actually had a t-shirt business for a while and that was so much work getting all of that out there that's a lot Nancy what would have been your project that you would have wished you could have taken after school or art my my thing was always music and theater what about you Pete I have no idea I don't know what what did you do after school look you know this is the thing I went to Catholic School in Queens and I wasn't aware that like they never talked about art I mean art was like maybe once a month maybe and it was just like here are some paper plates and crayons now draw on your hand and make a turkey like everyone's just doing the same thing kind of and then when I moved out to the suburbs in Long Island in Junior High School uh and went to public school I was like what you can take a sculpture class a painting class a drawing class like what how I so I was always feel like I was robbed of that you know opportunity like many of your kids if they didn't have you they wouldn't know you're helping them find out what they want to do in their lives too I mean this is right absolutely as a deal we have many cuts and those cuts fairly happens inside of communities of color um and it's already that the first thing they pull is the Arts and for me that's another way to silence a child itself I feel like that's a it's it's damaging to a child not to have the Arts so and to society yes once I realized that I'm like we have to do something much greater and making sure that we can meet every child where they at and provide this for absolutely free and you grew up with the Arts also I did not grow up with the Arts unfortunately it was something that I didn't wasn't exposed to wow it was just School unfortunately I grew up in a very rough um environment not knowing my dad my mom had having a sickness with drugs and not just knowing what the resources and everything that was available to me at the time and that's how I became a mother at the age of 14 years old w a second had my second child the age of 18 years old so I pretty much and I took care of my younger siblings and cousins started from the age seven remember making my whole Thanksgiving meal at the age of 7 years old so I didn't really have that opportunity for that how did you take care of a child at 14 how did you know what to do I did not know what to do I just no internet there was no right you couldn't just go to a Tik Tok no there wasn't that you know what I did know was that I didn't want my child to be raised how I was raised so I just learned from that and did the total opposite it's amazing that you knew that that you were that self-aware so I put myself through the shelter system at a very young age and been in my own apartment for a very young age and here I am today my go so at 14 where were you living can you talk a little bit about that like what happened you were 14 you got pregnant did you immediately go to a shelter did you give like what I got pregnant at 14 I stayed you know home between my mom and my dad's house and those were challenging issues as well but made through and then once I gave birth you know I went to The Confident house I went to the door and just trying to find those resources within that they couldn't provide me with any shelter at the time because of my age so when I turned so at 14 it pretty much was me continuing to leave home doing a day go to school I had to leave School obviously and I went to a young mother's school um and where was the baby at this time I went to a young mother's school so the baby went to school with me and then after that I gave birth to my second child at the age of 18 and that's when they were able to support me a little bit more with the housing situation and that's when I I went into what they call a tear two um and that's where you go into a shelter where you stay for the remaining of your time until you're eligible for some permanent housing and then from there how did you get into Where You Are now like this is just unbelievable to me and it's so it says so much about the kind of person you are that you were able to navigate all of that which is it's hard like it's a lot for someone to just have a child right and to raise a child but here you are at such a young age and your tenacity is just unbelievable yeah so I it it was hard you know I I surrounded myself with people who I trust who I seen had great leadership um who I seen that was doing something positive in their life and I just learned from them I just was observing and taking everything in like a sponge um and utilizing it in the spaces that I need to be in and so when I gained my first apartment which was in Red Hook and my children they went to school here in Red Hook I met a few people such as deedre who is the other founder of this organization and she's a white woman and she sort of potential in my son and she started giving him classes is that how this started was just her oh my gosh so she was a volunteer at the school when my son was attending and she recognized his talent and she came to me and she said you know I really want to give him personal classes and I said I thought she was losing her damn mind I said are you dumb I'm like uh he needs to know how to read do math do science you know cuz that's what I lacked that and I wanted to make sure his education was you know topnotch not realizing and understanding that taking ARS from him again was silencing him and not put him in the position to even care about reading and math so when she let a class in my home and he did something a recopy from something from the 16 chapel and I seen that I was like I was blown away I was blown away and I I realized that this is what he needs and since he's had a pen in his hand he Bloss him with his grades and did did everything the right way you know went to school moved to California at the age of 18 came back he's a huge social media influencer you know and then my daughter being part of the music department she utilized her writing skills to navigate education and she graduated a year early salutatorian and then they both work in the nonprofit sector as well as um you know my daughter she designs bags my son as I said he's a social media influencer so he does a lot of stuff with that and creative directors for huge companies like feli he had a clothing collaboration with s and a couple of other companies that he's worked closely with they must be so happy for you with this film

yes but my son got to go out there and put his life on the line to protect his own kind I am not okay I am not

okay when my son got a call me and tell me NYPD was start in trouble and doing things to people I am not

okay how do you sleep how do anyone sleep knowing that lives are being taken because of their skin color if I could write this [ __ ] in fire I will write this [ __ ] in

fire look talk about this film this film was born of the pandemic right yes well it was born of Tiffany yeah Tiffany Tiffany had some time during the pandemic like many of us it was when George Floyd died and it was just like a overwhelming time for so many because we had to be stuck in the house and then you had this situation that took place cuz George Floyd was murdered and then every all of a something we all had to be out there protesting and fighting once again um um for basic human rights and human decency and you know and so to have my son in the middle of a pandemic feeling like he had to go out there to protest you know putting himself and everybody else putting themselves In Harm's Way because we already living with this covid-19 which is also was deadly at the time um so many people I lost seven family members myself seven family members from covid correct and so my God that was already challenging um for my family and I so for this and your son going out there and you already see repeatedly what's going on with our young boys of color you know it just was hard so I just like I need a place where I can speak and I never really went uh live on Facebook but this yeah it doesn't seem like you're the kind of person who would have done that I mean I do write a lot but I never like take it to where I'm going if I do go live it was more about letting the community know that we had food items and essential items like you know the the uh covid testing mask for them to come over to our studio to pick up those things but I never went to social media and on live to discuss the pain and hurt of me as a parent and raising young people of color and what that feels like you know so right and you did you went online yeah that day I just was like I just need to speak to someone and I just was speaking from fair I was speaking from frustration I just was I was overwhelmed we all was already alone I already couldn't really see my children cuz we all lived in different household so you were completely alone during the pandemic yeah my kids lived together in Manhattan and I lived in Bay Ridge so I didn't really get a chance to really see them as much you know FaceTime and um phone calls yes but we didn't really spend much time together because you know they were young and they still didn't take the pandemic really serious as much as they should have so they was partying with you know having friends come over and I just was like I'm stay away I'm GNA stay away from all of that you know so I didn't really spend as much time with them that also was fearful cuz I was like as a mom you want your children close to you in the event something happened they're right there and you can protect them you know but I also know that they are young adults and they have to go out there and fly so that also it's like okay let them do that but I I don't want my children to have to fight a fight that's unnecessary you know of killing people because of their skin tone and seeing these things happened in front of our face and they still asking for an investigation so it was like what what do you need an investigate who was investigating who well now today I I read that there they're actually the strategy that Derek schin is has come up with is that George Floyd had a heart condition and that they're going to try to prove that that's why he died as if he didn't kill him sucks it's it's so well it's just that is the thing about our justice system that is so [ __ ] up that it can be so manipulated that someone like a well you look at Zimmerman right who got off for killing somebody it's insane the guy who just got off from the train station exactly Danel and you know is the same thing it's so crazy it's a constant struggle for justice and I think that's the thing that we're seeing in our times is that we have to be so Vigilant because there are there will always be people that will try to wiggle their way out of Justice yep you know that will take advantage of the system for whatever reasons they have and we have to constantly fight it you know and it's hard it's a hard it's a hard fight like I said in the video in the short film and it's real when I have to tell my son to make your hands visible don't walk in groups it's it's a that's how I raised them when he went to school I didn't buy hoodies when he went to school he and he walked with his friends I made sure my son walked with friends that didn't look like him I made sure my son was able to be around people that didn't look like him and although my son is a more of a lightskinn version of a black man where he understands his privilege as a lighter version of a black man right but when he's with my dark skin and nephews and cousins they would bother them first so this is why my son sometimes that's is why he felt the need to put himself on the line and go out there and protest so that way he can protect the other dark skinned Brothers yeah it's interesting cuz I feel this as a white woman in the city that I'm I actually look at my behavior to make sure that I am sort of letting people know that they're safe and that also I'm checking myself cuz look I grew up in a very Jewish suburb in Baltimore and there was a lot of prejudice and I'm I've constantly been aware of those prejudices that were instilled in me I have to check myself all the time you know because it's been taught and I didn't realize that when I was younger I always understood that was going on but I didn't understand that I was being taught that and that's something I'm constantly seeing even now as an as an older lady I see it I also am seeing the prejudices against me as an older woman like I we we all it's not the same thing but I'm I'm noticing it more because we're having these conversations absolutely and I think this is what I love about the film I love this about Gabrielle's work in general because she's always done work that is social justice driven and I think that well done Nancy well done thank you I'm getting better at catching myself but I think that that it's like it makes so much sense that you two I'm I'm sort of jumping to the film again but that you two found each other which I think is so magical because it was like it was Kismet like you were meant to find each other and work together because it's such a powerful piece you know it really we just for the listener basically what happened is Tiffany went online and expressed many brilliant things uh Gabrielle then said hey I want to use these words as the narration for this dance film you'll be able to listen to the other episode it's already air you can go back and listen to the episode with Gabrielle lansner to get details about the film oh my gosh I love that Nancy is like literally jumping ahead in time right now in this uh recording what I was going to say was it's it there's an added benefit that I believe the kids who come to the Red Hook art project are getting and that is an exposure to what Justice is absolutely right it must run through every marker and paintbrush and everything there right what Justice is what it means to work in community yeah what it means to be in a diverse setting what it means to treat people with respect and what it means to like be around people who don't look like you and how do you meet people where they at by having these open conversations right A lot of times without an organization like this a lot of students who we serve or people and a lot of the children who come and do community service hours would have never had the opportunity to cross paths or meet each other to even understand what is happening right here in the community they live in and they live a block away from each other but because it's different cultures and different settings and what we don't realize is happening in our world is that you will have a program and you'll say this program is $30,000 and then you have a program up the block and say it's free so we are already still have a problem with surrogating people and separating people because all program should be you already saying this kid can't afford this this kid cannot go so the kid is not going to be in this setting so that's a problem that I feel like we as people and as this um this government system it's still we have a long way to go long have there been students who are um I don't know what's the word like reticent to sort of jump in and and give it a go like you know that you have them in you know you can kind of see them in the Horizon and you're like I man I wish that kid would kind of come over to this side you know yeah what what would keep a kid from is it you know social anxiety is it sort of not knowing how to socialize is it if some people don't know how to socialize and they socialized by a paint brush or a marker yeah and sometimes with those set of children those set of artists and creators we give them the space to do that and then once they you give them that space and they find a place where they trust you know that's when they start coming around and being around other individuals and and sharing ideas right wow I imagine that I mean it's hard look we all know as artists it's hard enough to be an artist to express yourself to be vulnerable and I imagine that when kids are going through whatever it is they're going through at home within the community whatever is going on no matter where you live in our society I think that it's probably very difficult for some of these kids to open that up and and use whatever art they are exposed to to express themselves and I think having that ability to experiment probably helps them a great deal not only as an artist and exploring themselves as an artist but as a human being to to sort of allow that to come out and then be able to vocalize in whatever artistic form they are whatever is going on internally with them I think that allows them even to also understand who they are started getting to learn themselves on a different level and what they bring to the table and around others so I think it's a phenomenal thing that you know this is what's going on here at rap you know have you ever had any kids all of a sudden come out with something that like you had no idea they were going to express or have they through their artwork all of a sudden realized something about themselves that was like an enormous absolutely I mean there are students that I meet when they first come to rap and their colors are vibrant they're bright you know and then you can and then as you get to know them you start seeing the colors change oh right so then you start understanding the process of they're going through something right now something is happening and then how do I meet them where they at right now and have a conversation with them without them feeling like someone's being in a business you know but actually make them feel like someone's protected and loving loving on them I'm assuming they have different teachers that you have people that work with are they trained to sort of like see that with the student students and then help them with their art to get through that or is as there social they're not doing art therapy necessarily no we're not doing art therapy we are uh community members of individuals who see a need in the Arts who see the need of our students that we need to support and nurture um so it it's it's really about the art it's really about the art find we have students who have grown with any organization who's now aging out right and as they age out they become the co- facilitators and the leaders in the class room to support our volunteers who come in so they already set the tone of what that space needs to look like and the language that needs to be provided and making sure there's no stigmas that's being said or drawn in the room yeah that's cool I want to go I want to go there I know right well you can as a volunteer too right we can come in yeah we're always looking for volunteers especially as a new year come in we are really looking to get our music department um off the grounds we have a recording piano guitar drums turntables we have a lot of music stuff that have not really been utilized in a way we would like to see it be utilized so in 2025 we're hoping we have the opportunity to work with a lot of volunteers who who is eager to come in and teach those classes oh I will come in and work with music stuff and maybe podcasting stuff too and we have a bunch of podcast stuff as well too we got the microphones the headphones the computers software because we did that during the pandemic we launched the part class online it went really well and then the stuff is just sit in the box now do you find that a lot of your the people who want to be volunteers what would you say the the is the uh age range and the the the what is the what is the group of PE you know the age of the the most people who want to volunteer so right now I have a 70 70 year old woman who comes in and teach our pfolio prep class right so and then I have a 24 year old who comes in and teacher class right so it it it it ranges and then I also have a high school student who is now teaching stem and stitchers to our students right so showing how crochet goes with MAV you know wow we work with a variety of volunteers from different age groups and different backgrounds so let's jump a little bit to your experience on the film I'd love to if we can talk a little bit about um your experience going on the festival circuit are you sharing that this you're movie star now basically so we just got to get into the inside scoop of what it's like to be the voice of and the writer of I am not okay I have to tell you when I first met you at I think it was in um Union Square when there was a showing I think it was the opening at the a festival or something I was like you totally had the movie star Vibe it was so cool you were it you look so happy right now oh I'm glad you saw that oh totally totally and it was just so exciting to see that this is taking off and that there's so much going on with it so what what is that like for you having gone from a pandemic into now going to all these premieres and stuff with the film man it's freaking awesome for me I just feel like I'm I'm a type of person growing up I was always like never seen or heard or always in the back scenes of things because of how I grew up you know in unfortunate situations so I didn't really put myself out there at a young age nor in my in my older my older younger years I didn't do that well either so as an adult and as the pandemic happened and being on a front line supporting my community making sure everybody eat have essential items I felt I felt a a great pleasure in that and I wanted more people to understand what was happening and that as a black woman who's struggling I'm still out here willing to make sure my community has what it has what it needs and still willing to fight the good fight regardless of what I have what I may have been lacking so for Gabrielle to to listen to my words see it as something that was Major for it to be put out there and then turn it into something that makes it to festivals where you're sitting on panels I just went to Puerto Rico this year to see the film you know and it just was good it's just to know that my name my voice my name is international and making it out on this film where people are really interested it's unfortunate that this is the case of like that it has to be because of this right I also believe that not the best circumstances yeah but I do believe that the more we speak about it and it coming from individuals who may have be an asset in certain communities and a leader in certain communities that people would start listening and and leaning in and and have and keeping those conversations going and I do think that is what's happening I think as crazy as things are right now and I think God knows where it's going to go over the next four years at least I I think there's circumstances with our election system that is pretty messed up and with our media but I do think that for the that most people y are open to listening opening to seeing and to paying attention to what's going on I still think we have such a way to go as a society to to understand that there has been a community that has been so oppressed that I I really do believe that we have to find a way somehow for people to understand that the pendulum has not even gotten to a place where it's at equilibrium so for us to like for this election was scary to see that people there were a lot of people are like we swung too far I've had these conversations we've swung too far and I'm like are you [ __ ] kidding me we haven't even swung to a place of equilibrium that's that's what I want to say this we swung too far [ __ ] is [ __ ] we haven't even gotten there I mean there's times people come in and they say oh you're Tiffany you're the Ed and founder I'm like uh what were you expecting well what were they expecting that's what I want to know they don't really say what they was expecting but oh because your name's Tiffany well the name Tiffany sounds totally like this like Barbie to me you think of this white girl with blonde hair i' you know I think maybe maybe that's what they're thinking they're like oh you don't have a I don't wear Blaze I don't wear sh I wear my construction Tims and my bamboo earrings and I'm on the ground yes when you're when we're talking about the movie and and how your words like left off of your computer screen or now on a movie screen I realized that you are an influencer oh absolutely have you and your son had this discussion yet that you are like you know which came first the chicken or the egg right you're you're doing it I mean you're doing it my daughter says it all the time she's just like Ma I just just happened to go I wanted to know how much work you did so I just went to Google and I just Googled your name and so many different things comes up and she's like wow you really did a lot of work and a lot of great positive things are happening and that's that's what I didn't even take I didn't even think to like do that but just about you wer doing it for that you weren't doing it to become an influencer online you were doing it CU you were actually trying to help your community yes I give a damn you know you were you were expressing yourself and as a result of that things changed and things happened and that's what art is and that to me is what the ultimate influencer is is you're changing lives instead of this selling products and all that crap exactly you are really influencing lives art saves lives yeah and it's true I thought you gonna flash me there for a secondy I was getting nous you had some dollars maybe let me stop W it after hours after all oh my God now we have to make this an x-rated I'm have to like damn but you know it is it really is so wonderful because you really are doing that and it's it it says so much about you that after all you've been through in your life how much you're giving to this and to these kids is so beautiful it's like it to me it's so it's really what we all should be doing you know thank you it's rewarding I part of me is showing up for that little girl nobody showed up for and the other part of me is seeing the same situations happen with young people that I was that I was facing when I was younger and I I can't understand it I can't process it by the way I went to the gallery on your website and those pictures are unbelievable some of the artwork that these kids have done are amazing astounding um i h i I'm going to ask this uh cuz I haven't asked it in a little while I think on the podcast are we going for the elevator pitch no we're not oh oh I know what you're going to ask because it's easy for Tiffany to give the elevator pit like she that's what you do like investors and you know all kinds of Grant people that's what you do uh no so you are you've done this is done done done done what else would you do with your life if it was not related to the Arts man I will be out here serving my people I on the politician what do you what would you do politician uh I know no she's not saying no she is not saying no you're not in the run I'm not saying no I'm not saying no I do believe that in the next five to 10 years that that's the that's where I'm going to head is politics uh to find the resources for organizations such as this um such as this organization and to continue to serve in a way that um we haven't been served with Grace well you don't have to do it as you don't have to a senator or representative yes so there's a really great organization called run for something I don't know if you've heard about them and after the 2016 election this is how AOC became a a congresswoman is that run for something they were they were like we got to get people in local in the from the bottom up in positions of power basically and so it's called run for something well we can talk about that when we talk about the website stuff where um people like you who actually do the work for the communities are running for boards school boards all of these things and helping to change it on a local level because politics is local right that was in the New York Times cross POS today or yesterday politics is local and we need people like you who actually are a willing to do the work and can do it and do it with power correct good exchange of information here uh once again um solidifying that we are changing lives with this podcast Nancy we are now we're now sending Tiffany in an easier Direction but just a website just go to the website AOC did it and look where she is Tiffany is already like you know star of the screen and we know that often helps in a campaign right if we get we oh they've already been on screen they already know how to speak you know you had to speak for the movie so you're already there so thank you for all of your service to our community as an elected official and everything you did before that right thank you yeah I'm more like if I'm going to run for these positions I I already want the work to be done people know who I am what I'm capable of I don't just want to come out the wo works and people like what have she done well you've done a lot you've actually just make your daughter your campaign manager she just did all this research she knows everything you've done exactly she's like she's like girl she started sending me screenshots you here you here you here so funny thank you so what is next for you well what's next for me you know rap R art project is 15 years old This Year wo so my goal is to get us to another 15 years but I do believe that there's other things that I want to do with you know with myself I do want to see rap be International um I have a de passion for Puerto Rico so I do want to see R in Puerto Rico so that's what my hopes are is to build another one outside New York City um and see where it goes yes that's a good plan yeah are you raising funds for that or how are you doing that yeah and no so I'm hoping that the David prize would kind of help support me wait you got the David prize I did not get it but I'm hoping you'll get it next time I'll get it next what is the David prize an individual in New York City who is looking to make things good uh receives is it $500,000 $300,000 is $100,000 for each individual or2 200,000 sorry $200,000 that's it no questions asked yeah take it do what do something with it yes oh that's great and I think it's a very small hand a handful of people get it and it is very very long application it's a very long but I started my so I applied in 2020 I made it to the third round I didn't make it to the final round so that was fine I was going to apply again but when I was two people in R hook already won so I knew they wasn't going to choose us for another couple of years so 2025 is my year okay good I I agree I hope so I canot wait for when they announce that that's going to be great be cool yeah and then for this organization here in Red Hook I do want to expand it to more of a um art residency kind of vibe you know buy a building when I say art residency I mean where our young people young adults as they age out they have a artist space but on top of Housing and so they're able to get into some type of permanent housing I love that's so groovy yeah that's really wonder groovy because it's nothing really for artists and artists are we have struggling artists but they are the ones making the world a better place with all of the things that they create just need a big old space just a big old space they can't afford to live anywhere so it's like Red Hook is getting so expensive trust me I pay $2,500 rent in my apartment is like a box oh my God it's insane but you know I'm thankful for me for people to see me come from the shelter a projects and then move out of the projects and live on the outskirts of Nicha but still in my community and still doing the work are you still living in Bay Ridge no I'm back in Red Hook now so I live five steps away from rap that's great as it should be exactly yes thank you so much for everything you're doing and uh for making the world a better place and thanks for coming back to us well yeah people people don't know there's we we tried we tried to double header interview we tried to do two people at once and like it was like a day from hell like my I couldn't get an internet and so I was it was wow that was a lot but it was good cuz we kind of got to like we it was like a pre what do they call it not a pre- inter it is a pre- intervie pre interv pre like when you go on Johnny Carson hi I'm old when you go on Johnny Carson they pre interiew what am I talking about what's next and Sullivan I gotta go everybody and Sullivan's on that is hilarious oh my God oh my God okay we're gonna end it before we like date ourselves even more hey thanks for checking us out links to today's guests can be found in the show notes don't forget to subscribe like us rate US and tell all your friends about arts and craft