Daniel Spector - teacher, acting coach & director of the Classical Studio at Tisch

Daniel Spector is a teacher, acting coach, Shakespeare aficionado, and Director of the Classical Studio at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts. He’s taught and directed numerous Broadway, film, and television actors. On this episode we talk grants, acting technique, and reveal the “secret sauce” to a winning audition. https://tisch.nyu.edu/about/directory/drama/1641228855

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Daniel Spector is a teacher, acting coach, and director.  He is Associate Arts Professor at NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts, where he holds a joint appointment with the departments of Drama and Dramatic Writing and serves as Director of The Classical Studio, a year-long Shakespeare intensive.  He has directed and coached actors on over 50 productions of 26 of Shakespeare’s plays, as well as directing numerous other projects at NYU and elsewhere.  He is a member of the Lincoln Center Theater Directors Lab and an alumnus of the Broadway Theatre Project.  He has served as a consultant to PBS on matters Shakespearean, led workshop for numerous arts organizations, and spoken at conferences around the world.  He recently published an article for the journal Shakespeare titled “Teaching Shakespeare’s Yes in the Era of No," which summarizes his current research interest: the intersection of acting and politics.    

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Produced and Edited by Arts and Craft.
Theme Music: Sound Gallery by Dmitry Taras.

Transcript

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<v Daniel Spector>Two rules that I've come up with over the years.

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<v Daniel Spector>At the very least, it helps with Shakespeare.

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<v Daniel Spector>I'd like to think, you know, it applies to other writers of other eras.

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<v Daniel Spector>Two rules.

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<v Daniel Spector>One is in your acting when you're playing a character.

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<v Daniel Spector>One is you can't complain.

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<v Daniel Spector>Your character can't complain.

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<v Daniel Spector>And two is your character's intention can never be to make the other person feel bad.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>He's a professor, director, Shakespeare aficionado, and runs the Classical Studio at NYU.

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<v Nancy Magarill>He has taught and directed numerous Broadway film and television actors.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>We welcome the well-versed Daniel Spector on today's episode.

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<v Nancy Magarill>My name is Nancy Magarill.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I'm a singer, songwriter, composer, performer, graphic, and web designer.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And I'm Peter Michael Marino.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And I'm a writer, producer, creator, performer, and educator.

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<v Nancy Magarill>We are New York based artists you may or may not have heard of.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And we are here to introduce you to other artists you may or may not have heard of.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I want to just real quickly talk about what we were talking about when we were doing the soundcheck.

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<v Nancy Magarill>You were talking about applying to the O'Neill for a grant.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Pete, you said it took you three hours.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Why did it only take?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Or is that like, oh my God, it took three hours?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Why did it only take?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>It should have taken three weeks.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>That's not really true.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>The O'Neill application is, it's like, it's not like a grant application, I guess.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's to, well, although part of it is, right, there is the part where it's like, do you need us to give you money?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Why?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And here's 20 different reasons, different things that might apply to you.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>But what it is is like, it's the time where you have to put your random thoughts about what you kind of want to work on into words, and in that process, you actually start to learn, oh, this is what I'm working on.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, interesting.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Daniel, have you ever applied for a grant?

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<v Daniel Spector>Yeah, and I was just thinking when Pete said, it's true that in forming the answers to the grant questions and application, it's sometimes where the project starts to take shape, because you're forced to articulate it in a logical format.

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<v Daniel Spector>The danger of that, and I have experiences before, is sometimes you start to articulate it, and you're like, I don't want to do this.

00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:04.140
<v Daniel Spector>Oh yeah.

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<v Daniel Spector>Um, and so you scrap the whole thing.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Paired with, I don't want to apply for this grant.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Like, you know, this project doesn't even sound good, and this grant certainly does not sound, yeah, just like, let this one go.

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<v Nancy Magarill>You know what's funny?

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<v Nancy Magarill>I always assume that people only apply for grants that they really want.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Like, I didn't realize that there are grants out there that people apply just to apply.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Is that what you're implying?

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<v Daniel Spector>Well, you want the experience, you know, sometimes there's travel involved to exotic places, which is awesome.

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<v Daniel Spector>You want the money, and you want the time to develop the thing.

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<v Daniel Spector>But sometimes the rationale for it is post hoc.

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<v Daniel Spector>You know, sometimes you go, let me see if I can get this, and then I'll figure something awesome out to do there.

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<v Daniel Spector>And of course, good grant issuing entities will know that's coming.

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<v Daniel Spector>And so they've got very specific requirements for you.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I would never be that person.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>That's not how, like, I will only, like, I need to know what I'm doing, otherwise I can't go.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Like, that's the goal.

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<v Daniel Spector>And that usually shows.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, of course.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And it would just, it would be a serious breach if you actually got a grant and then you weren't, it's not something you even were remotely interested in doing.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>It also, like, it just asks, like, it asks questions that, like, you don't necessarily apply to the project that you've been, you know, storming over for, you know, weeks or years or months.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's also, like, what's your mission statement?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And you're like, oh, man, today?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>You know, it's so different, you know, and then, like, you start writing something and you're like, oh, my God, this sounds so corny.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Like, I've been on the other end of festival, you know, applications, and I'm just like, oh.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Before, you know, ChatGPT existed, some of the answers were so packed, you know, like, I feel like, you know, just, it's very hard to sound authentic.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>So I just try to be like, I literally wrote, look, I've been around the block.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>That's what I wrote.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And as far as like, why do you need this?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>You know, why do you need this right now?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I've been around the block and I've done a lot of shit.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And now I want to do this shit.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Daniel, have you ever done any Shakespeare grant writing?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh yeah.

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<v Daniel Spector>I guess the closest I've come to that is to apply for grants from my own university, to go, you know, to attend a Shakespeare conference, for example, and to get support for that.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, that's important.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So you're applying to NYU to give you the grant to do that.

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<v Daniel Spector>NYU has got its own sort of funding sources, multiple sources around the university to help professors, for example, cover expenses to, as I've done numerous times, fly to the UK to attend a Shakespeare conference or go to Canada or wherever, because it's part of our, it's not necessarily in the job description to go to conferences, but it's how you sort of stay connected to the state of the art, which in theory benefits my students in addition to me, and so universities, at least wealthy universities like NYU where I work, have some great sources of funding to make that happen and make sure you don't go broke doing it.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>What do you do at NYU, Daniel?

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<v Daniel Spector>So at the Tisch School of the Arts of New York University, in the undergraduate department of drama, I teach acting and theater and Shakespeare courses to largely 20 to 22 year olds, because I work mostly with juniors and seniors, but an occasional sophomore pops in and I-

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<v Peter Michael Marino>The gifted ones?

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<v Daniel Spector>The most, the giftedest ones, or the ones who just-

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<v Daniel Spector>The giftedest?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>The ones who went to like the, what's the name of the damn camp that all the kids go to, the theater kids go to?

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<v Daniel Spector>Stage door manor, French woods.

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<v Daniel Spector>Stage door manor or French woods, exactly.

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<v Daniel Spector>I probably taught half of those kids over the years.

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<v Daniel Spector>And then I also, within the department of drama, I run a little program called the Classical Studio, in which we take a small group of these students for the entire academic year, me and five other faculty members, and work pretty intensively with them on what we consider to be basic acting skills, but it's called the Classical Studio, another long story short.

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<v Daniel Spector>It's called the Classical Studio because we use Shakespeare as the primary training material.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Where does that happen?

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<v Daniel Spector>Physically, it happens at NYU's newest billion-dollar building in the Greenwich Village campus, part of the university.

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<v Nancy Magarill>When I worked with Daniel, we were at 721 Broadway.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Listener Daniel and I worked, it was probably about 10 years.

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<v Daniel Spector>Actually, before that, Nancy, we were at 890 Broadway.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, God, that's right.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Hasn't everyone been at 890 Broadway at some point in their lives?

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<v Daniel Spector>That was cool.

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<v Daniel Spector>That was some-

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<v Peter Michael Marino>What was 720 Broadway?

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<v Daniel Spector>721 Broadway is just one of the NYU buildings where the Tisch School of the Arts is primarily based.

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<v Nancy Magarill>There was a cabaret theater and some small rooms that we worked in.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>That's how you guys know each other.

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<v Nancy Magarill>No, actually, Louis Scheider, who was the head of the Classical Studio, was directing a musical that I wrote with Julie Crosby called Mankind.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Daniel was Louis' assistant, right, Daniel?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Were you his assistant at that time?

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<v Daniel Spector>I ended up basically, I wouldn't call myself the producer, but I definitely wasn't the stage manager, but I liaised with those, I'm trying to be kind, the people who ran the Fringe Festival at the time.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, the Fringe Festival, the people.

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<v Daniel Spector>Which I'm still waiting for payment.

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<v Nancy Magarill>What?

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<v Daniel Spector>For doing, it was pure torture.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Wait, you never got paid?

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<v Daniel Spector>Oh, I don't think so.

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<v Daniel Spector>Even if I did, it wasn't enough.

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<v Daniel Spector>That was a tough thing to do.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I don't think that was the fringe that was supposed to pay you.

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<v Daniel Spector>I'm joking, either way.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>It was not what I expected to be doing.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So he was working with Louis, and then Louis brought me into the Classical Studio to write music for the Classical Studio.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Then I eventually started working with Daniel.

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<v Nancy Magarill>We became friends and the rest is history.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And now we're going to be neighbors, which is almost as exciting as working with him.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>You know, of course, I had this like weirdly old romantic view of like an NYU professor just like living in one of those brown stones around the block from Washington Square Park.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>So when he said he lives next door, I'm like, oh, wait, what?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Of course.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Why do you want to live across from where you work?

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<v Daniel Spector>Well, you know, I have spent the past nine years, I'm finishing my term as what's called a Faculty Fellow in Residence.

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<v Daniel Spector>So you're not far off, Pete.

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<v Daniel Spector>I live in an NYU dorm.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Did you have your own shower?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, he has an amazing apartment.

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<v Nancy Magarill>It's a pretty cool apartment.

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<v Daniel Spector>It's a pretty cool place.

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<v Daniel Spector>You know, they carve out, there's at least one professor that lives at every NYU dorm and they carve out real apartments in these spaces for us to live in.

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<v Daniel Spector>People live here with their families, their kids, their dogs, their fish.

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<v Daniel Spector>And I've been doing that for nine years, so you're not far off.

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<v Daniel Spector>It's definitely not a brownstone, but it's pretty cool.

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<v Daniel Spector>It's down in basically the Chinatown-Tribeca border.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And it's a program where they actually work, they have someone there to create events and things, they give them a budget to do things with the students.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And it's actually a really smart program.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And he's gotten to live there for nine years and now he's getting his own place.

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<v Daniel Spector>Yeah, it's been cool.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Congratulations.

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<v Daniel Spector>Thank you.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>So you're a Shakespeare guy, right?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And where in your timeline does Daniel discover this?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And then when in the timeline does Daniel go, I'm dedicating my life to this?

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<v Daniel Spector>Both have the same answer, which is the aforementioned Louis Scheter.

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<v Daniel Spector>So Louis was a, he was a director, but I think is probably best known for being an absolutely brilliant teacher of actors and coach of actors.

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<v Daniel Spector>And I met him, I auditioned for this program that I now run, the Classical Studio.

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<v Daniel Spector>When I was heading into my junior year at NYU as a drama student, I was a musical theater student, actually.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Like performance?

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<v Daniel Spector>Yeah, I came to NYU to do musicals, and then I was doing a musical at NYU, Pacific Overtures, that's another story.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Wow.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, we're gonna wanna hear that one.

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<v Daniel Spector>And I think there was one Asian person in that cast.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Wow.

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<v Daniel Spector>And I had a very good backstage friend who was just, we laughed, we cackled, we made jokes together, but she was the kind of person I knew definitely not to trust with any advice.

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<v Daniel Spector>And one day she said, I said, you know, I'm thinking about auditioning for this thing, the Classical Studio, I don't know anything about it.

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<v Daniel Spector>And she said, I went there for a semester, this guy, Louis Sheeter runs it.

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<v Daniel Spector>Trust me, you do not want to go there, he'll ruin acting for you.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh my goodness.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>So then you're like, that sounds great.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I have that.

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<v Daniel Spector>Yeah, that's pretty much, I was like, well, that's suggesting I need to go at least audition for this program and meet this guy.

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<v Daniel Spector>And for some reason he took me.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And you had some, you had done some Shakespeare or studied some, no?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>No.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Wow.

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<v Daniel Spector>No, not at all.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>You had seen it.

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<v Daniel Spector>And it's not even a requirement, it's not a requirement for the program because it's again, it's just using Shakespeare as training material.

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<v Daniel Spector>It's not even training you to be a classical actor per se.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Right.

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<v Daniel Spector>And I remember the first day back in September of, I guess that would have been 2000, sitting in the room with this guy and thinking, man, I'm in the right place and soaking it in for the year.

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<v Daniel Spector>That was my junior year, my senior year, because you can only do the program for one year.

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<v Daniel Spector>I still, I latched on by being the musical director for a production of As You Like It, he was doing with that group.

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<v Daniel Spector>Then at the end of the year, Louis gave us all exit interviews and said, what are your plans?

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<v Daniel Spector>I said, actually, I'd like to assist you.

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<v Daniel Spector>To cut to the chase, that began a 20-year relationship that started out as really just a fly on the wall in his acting classes because I wanted to see how did he do this thing that was so effective to so many people and change so many lives.

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<v Daniel Spector>Then I would start to chime in here and there in class and he was really a mentor in sort of giving me some opportunities to blab.

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<v Daniel Spector>I started working with the students alone.

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<v Daniel Spector>He'd get a night off every now and then because he had to assist him for the first time.

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<v Daniel Spector>That snowballed into teaching a class and then, again, making a long story short, I started running the program with him after a certain point.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I think when I worked with you, you were running it with him.

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<v Daniel Spector>Yeah.

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<v Daniel Spector>Then it was pretty organic the way it happened.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, yeah, this sounds like it was all meant to be exactly the way it was.

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<v Daniel Spector>I would say that and he got unwell about, God, it's been about 10 years now.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Was it 10?

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<v Daniel Spector>He started noticing some issues and he died a few years ago and then I became the director officially of the studio.

00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:23.740
<v Nancy Magarill>One of the things that I wanted to talk about today was the process of teaching people Shakespeare because what used to fascinate me in the classes and kind of blow my mind was watching kids from the beginning of the semester, of the first semester, go from almost being like there is no way these kids are going to be doing anything by the end of the year that even resembles Shakespeare too, blowing my mind.

00:13:23.740 --> 00:13:46.020
<v Nancy Magarill>Now, there's some kids that automatically have talent and you know it instantly, but watching some young actors grow and especially with something like Shakespeare which is you have to have a special, you know, I mean, look, NYU students are pretty smart anyway, but to watch them grasp it and learn and morph into these wonderful actors was just so thrilling.

00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.440
<v Nancy Magarill>What do you find or like some of the ways into that?

00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:56.420
<v Nancy Magarill>Are there any like secrets that you've learned over the years or is it just that you work with each one individually?

00:13:56.420 --> 00:13:57.800
<v Nancy Magarill>Can you talk a little bit about that?

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:03.740
<v Daniel Spector>Well, I'll say first of all, the real secret to our sauce is time.

00:14:03.740 --> 00:14:13.240
<v Daniel Spector>We, like I said, we have the gift of a year with usually no more than 14 students to work on this very complicated art form.

00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:21.480
<v Daniel Spector>And not only that, but we also work with them usually six days of the week for that academic year between classes and rehearsals.

00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:32.320
<v Daniel Spector>So it's probably in an undergraduate setting, certainly for a BFA granting program, it's probably the closest you get to resembling an MFA program, a grad level program.

00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:35.260
<v Daniel Spector>Just again, just by the sheer amount of time.

00:14:35.260 --> 00:14:51.380
<v Daniel Spector>The reason I say I think time is the secret sauce is because when I've auditioned kids before for this program or for other projects outside of school, and I've often worked with recent college grads, I'll say, how did you work on this?

00:14:51.380 --> 00:14:54.580
<v Daniel Spector>And they say, well, with my teacher, I did this and I did that.

00:14:54.580 --> 00:14:56.040
<v Daniel Spector>And I had a coach who did this with me.

00:14:56.780 --> 00:15:03.020
<v Daniel Spector>And very often, the things they say are quite brilliant, like, oh, that sounds amazing, but then you're not doing it.

00:15:03.020 --> 00:15:06.840
<v Daniel Spector>There's no evidence that you're actually practicing what was preached to you.

00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:16.620
<v Daniel Spector>And I sort of come to the conclusion that people aren't spending enough time on practicing their material or working with teachers on these concepts that they're doing in class.

00:15:16.920 --> 00:15:23.800
<v Daniel Spector>So time is everything for us, but I'll share some of the principles that we circle around in the studio.

00:15:24.180 --> 00:15:31.120
<v Daniel Spector>And I'll begin by sort of saying two rules that I've come up with over the years.

00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:32.980
<v Daniel Spector>At the very least, it helps with Shakespeare.

00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:37.580
<v Daniel Spector>I'd like to think it applies to other writers of other eras.

00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:38.140
<v Daniel Spector>Two rules.

00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.120
<v Daniel Spector>One is in your acting when you're playing a character.

00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.380
<v Daniel Spector>One is you can't complain.

00:15:43.380 --> 00:15:44.700
<v Daniel Spector>Your character can't complain.

00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:50.160
<v Daniel Spector>And two is your character's intention can never be to make the other person feel bad.

00:15:50.160 --> 00:15:51.060
<v Nancy Magarill>That's good advice.

00:15:51.380 --> 00:15:54.840
<v Nancy Magarill>That's almost like the yes end in a different language.

00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:56.080
<v Daniel Spector>Well, exactly.

00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.260
<v Daniel Spector>It sort of forces you into a yes habit of mind.

00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:07.300
<v Daniel Spector>And the reason I think I've sort of got to that point, I wasn't saying that to my students 10 or 15 years ago.

00:16:07.460 --> 00:16:24.540
<v Daniel Spector>It's more recent, is I think because it does sort of, if we just, of all the infinite artistic choices you could make as an actor, if we just rule out those two, it will force you to do things that I think, we think make a more effective contribution to the story telling.

00:16:24.760 --> 00:16:39.880
<v Daniel Spector>Because what drives a story, what drives a dramatic script forward, I'm being very general here, but generally speaking, what moves story forward is characters, not just encountering obstacles, but believing they can overcome those obstacles.

00:16:39.880 --> 00:16:40.660
<v Peter Michael Marino>Bingo.

00:16:40.660 --> 00:16:52.140
<v Daniel Spector>And new actors, and I say new actors rather than young actors, because I do work with sometimes 40 and 50 and 60-year-olds who decide they want to act for the first time, and I'll coach them sometimes.

00:16:52.140 --> 00:17:01.820
<v Daniel Spector>The inclination of new actors almost invariably is to, and you remember maybe Nancy Louie saying this, to play the problem, right?

00:17:01.820 --> 00:17:07.720
<v Daniel Spector>To play what it feels like to encounter that obstacle, which usually results in anger and frustration.

00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:09.160
<v Daniel Spector>And I guarantee you...

00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:11.280
<v Peter Michael Marino>Which comes easily to younger people.

00:17:11.300 --> 00:17:12.660
<v Daniel Spector>Which it comes easier to younger people.

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:14.180
<v Peter Michael Marino>And then much older people.

00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:15.240
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah, exactly.

00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.420
<v Daniel Spector>It's really ageless, I've found.

00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:23.680
<v Daniel Spector>Because anger and frustration feel to new actors like what acting is supposed to feel like in the future seasons.

00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:25.260
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, God, yes.

00:17:25.260 --> 00:17:31.080
<v Daniel Spector>Just like saying no always feels like a stronger acting choice than saying yes.

00:17:31.080 --> 00:17:32.140
<v Daniel Spector>And so...

00:17:32.140 --> 00:17:34.480
<v Nancy Magarill>The struggle is so important, too.

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:35.680
<v Daniel Spector>Exactly, you know?

00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:38.340
<v Daniel Spector>And I have theories about why that is, but we can talk about that later.

00:17:38.780 --> 00:17:54.960
<v Daniel Spector>So what we spend our year at the Classical Studio doing, and frankly, what I do with even award-winning actors that I coach is just remind them that at this moment, what the character is probably striving to do is to solve the problem that they're encountering.

00:17:55.100 --> 00:17:56.480
<v Nancy Magarill>It's also human, right?

00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:01.100
<v Nancy Magarill>Most humans are doing that, and the people that annoy the shit out of us are the ones who aren't doing that.

00:18:01.100 --> 00:18:03.140
<v Daniel Spector>Well, they're doing that if they need to.

00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:11.100
<v Daniel Spector>And the thing about drama, and that's why Shakespeare's good training material is because this writer puts them into these situations where they don't just want things, right?

00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:12.060
<v Daniel Spector>We all want things.

00:18:12.060 --> 00:18:13.060
<v Daniel Spector>We want that grant.

00:18:13.060 --> 00:18:14.720
<v Daniel Spector>Question is, do we need that grant?

00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.040
<v Nancy Magarill>Are we going to die without it?

00:18:16.040 --> 00:18:16.720
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:25.920
<v Daniel Spector>And when we kick into the need gear, then we tend to, then our belief mechanism also activates.

00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:31.860
<v Daniel Spector>And we, you know, I always think when I teach action, for example, we can talk about what I mean by that.

00:18:31.860 --> 00:18:43.380
<v Daniel Spector>You hear these stories, this comes up in the paper, like every few years, you hear a mother gets out of the car, maybe, you know, she puts, her kid is in the, what do you call the little crate that you put a baby in?

00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:44.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>Cradle.

00:18:44.300 --> 00:18:46.120
<v Daniel Spector>Cradle.

00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:47.640
<v Daniel Spector>She puts that down to get something out.

00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:48.940
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, this is a Shakespeare scholar.

00:18:48.940 --> 00:18:55.720
<v Daniel Spector>You know, she puts the cradle with the baby in down to get something out of the trunk, and then the car is not, you know, but you know, you see where this is going.

00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:57.660
<v Daniel Spector>The car starts to roll over the baby.

00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:58.220
<v Daniel Spector>And what does she do?

00:18:58.220 --> 00:19:01.280
<v Nancy Magarill>Okay, thank you for the nightmare I'm going to have tonight.

00:19:01.780 --> 00:19:11.080
<v Daniel Spector>And then she picks the fucking car up and kicks the cradle out, because if you need to lift a car, you can lift a fucking car.

00:19:11.080 --> 00:19:14.480
<v Daniel Spector>There's a lot you can do as a human being, if you need to.

00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.860
<v Daniel Spector>And again, I'm being very general about drama, but it certainly-

00:19:17.860 --> 00:19:19.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>You are hardly being general.

00:19:19.580 --> 00:19:23.440
<v Peter Michael Marino>We should charge people $1,000 to listen to what you just said.

00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:30.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's like just so great that you're able to like sum things up.

00:19:33.320 --> 00:19:43.720
<v Peter Michael Marino>It makes the journey to the top of the mountain so much quicker, so much shorter, and with so many fewer horrible obstacles, in which case, you'd have comedy.

00:19:45.940 --> 00:19:47.140
<v Peter Michael Marino>That's Shakespeare too, right?

00:19:47.140 --> 00:19:52.640
<v Peter Michael Marino>They're all desperately trying to, they're in trouble and need to get out of trouble.

00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:54.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>They need to get out of trouble.

00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:55.080
<v Daniel Spector>Exactly.

00:19:55.660 --> 00:20:09.220
<v Daniel Spector>Even I say early on in my work with students, to cut the word trying out of the vocabulary, because even that, again, what feels like acting to people is representing trying versus solving.

00:20:09.220 --> 00:20:10.960
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah.

00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:18.180
<v Daniel Spector>I am being a bit reductive, which negates what actors often-

00:20:19.100 --> 00:20:31.740
<v Daniel Spector>I have a great empathy for the insecurity that comes with acting, because what I'm asking people to do is, because the students, the actors know the script, they know Desdemona knows she's going to die.

00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:36.520
<v Daniel Spector>The actor playing Desdemona, I should say the actor playing Desdemona, knows she's going to die at the end.

00:20:36.520 --> 00:20:44.280
<v Daniel Spector>It's a much scarier thing to play that role from moment to moment, as if I will solve this problem with my husband.

00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:45.060
<v Daniel Spector>I love him.

00:20:45.060 --> 00:20:46.940
<v Daniel Spector>I know how much he loves me.

00:20:46.940 --> 00:20:48.280
<v Daniel Spector>We can get through this.

00:20:48.280 --> 00:21:03.540
<v Daniel Spector>It's a much scarier, more vulnerable way to play that, than that little thread of, I'm trying to patch things up with my husband, which just gives you that little out to fail, and therefore makes that failure much easier to experience.

00:21:03.540 --> 00:21:04.600
<v Daniel Spector>Does that make sense?

00:21:04.600 --> 00:21:05.540
<v Peter Michael Marino>A hundred percent.

00:21:05.540 --> 00:21:14.060
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, in the types of coaching things that I do, it's generally, because a lot of the stuff I do is solo show stuff, and it's storytelling stuff.

00:21:14.060 --> 00:21:17.400
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's hope kind of replaces of that, you know?

00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:18.860
<v Peter Michael Marino>You have to have hope.

00:21:18.860 --> 00:21:26.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>You must have hope, even when you were, you know, whatever, moving from army base to army base, or you were in the hospital with an incurable disease, like whatever.

00:21:26.820 --> 00:21:30.400
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, obviously, they cured it, because you're doing a one-man show about it, a one-person show.

00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:30.940
<v Peter Michael Marino>Sorry.

00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:32.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>Let me back up a minute.

00:21:32.300 --> 00:21:34.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>I just lost track of the whole thread.

00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:35.720
<v Peter Michael Marino>It was really going somewhere, though.

00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:36.620
<v Peter Michael Marino>You are hopeful.

00:21:36.620 --> 00:21:41.100
<v Peter Michael Marino>There are moments of hope, and the audience wants to see people being hopeful, for Christ's sake.

00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:51.760
<v Peter Michael Marino>Even in the horrible Broadway show, Misery, based on the movie, based on the book, that guy is so, Mike, who is it?

00:21:51.760 --> 00:22:00.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>James Cahn is so hopeful that he is going to get out of there, and she is so hopeful that he is going to rewrite that book the way she wants it.

00:22:00.260 --> 00:22:01.560
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's fucking great.

00:22:01.560 --> 00:22:02.260
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah.

00:22:02.260 --> 00:22:05.880
<v Daniel Spector>Speaking of, by the way, great moments of casting, Kathy Bates.

00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:06.620
<v Peter Michael Marino>Right.

00:22:06.620 --> 00:22:07.940
<v Nancy Magarill>I never saw that.

00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:09.720
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, it's really, really entertaining.

00:22:10.280 --> 00:22:12.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's, who directed it?

00:22:12.820 --> 00:22:14.220
<v Daniel Spector>Jonathan Demme, I think.

00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:17.440
<v Peter Michael Marino>No, I was gonna say it's Rob Marshall, but it's not Rob Marshall either.

00:22:17.580 --> 00:22:22.260
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's, yeah, it's somebody interesting like that.

00:22:22.260 --> 00:22:26.540
<v Nancy Magarill>Well, I turned off my phone or I would Google it, but that's okay.

00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>You guys talk, because I'm not gonna be able to talk anymore unless I figure it out.

00:22:29.300 --> 00:22:31.980
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh my God, that's crazy.

00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:33.200
<v Nancy Magarill>Go ahead, go look it up.

00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:34.520
<v Nancy Magarill>Go look it up.

00:22:34.520 --> 00:22:35.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>So embarrassing.

00:22:35.820 --> 00:22:36.100
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's funny.

00:22:36.100 --> 00:22:37.880
<v Nancy Magarill>Okay, it's so not embarrassing.

00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.460
<v Nancy Magarill>Of all things to remember, like I don't think that's embarrassing.

00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:52.540
<v Nancy Magarill>Daniel, while he's looking that up, just a side note, your voice, did you ever consider having a career as a voiceover artist?

00:22:52.540 --> 00:22:54.860
<v Daniel Spector>No, but I think I see where this is going.

00:22:54.860 --> 00:22:55.540
<v Daniel Spector>Thank you.

00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:56.780
<v Nancy Magarill>What?

00:22:56.780 --> 00:23:03.420
<v Nancy Magarill>I've always thought this about your voice, that you just have such a rich voice, the timbre, it just really resonates on the microphone.

00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:09.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, you need to hang out with people who will tell you, you actually should make a gazillion dollars by doing an ad for Coors Light.

00:23:10.360 --> 00:23:21.360
<v Daniel Spector>I know some real voiceover stars, so I'm humbled to begin with that knowing what they do and how well they do it, I can't conceive of moving into that sphere.

00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:21.900
<v Daniel Spector>But thank you.

00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:23.320
<v Nancy Magarill>But you do.

00:23:23.320 --> 00:23:26.040
<v Nancy Magarill>You could actually do your own podcast easily.

00:23:26.040 --> 00:23:38.620
<v Nancy Magarill>I've been listening to the podcast forum, so I'm in this place right now where I'm trying to stay away from news as much as I can, even though I'm trying to stay involved and sane.

00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:47.400
<v Nancy Magarill>So I was watching The Good Place, and so I started and I watched it, and it's actually a really brilliant show.

00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:53.960
<v Nancy Magarill>Michael Schur is my new hero because I think he is an insanely phenomenal writer.

00:23:53.960 --> 00:24:07.860
<v Nancy Magarill>I've been listening to the podcast about it, and the guy who plays Sean and I'm having a dummy attack on his name, he also has a very resonant, wonderful voice that I was just like, oh my God, it's your voices, the two of you together, I want to hear together.

00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:15.660
<v Daniel Spector>Those first two years at NYU as an undergrad, I did in the musical theater program were alongside none other than Kristen Bell.

00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:16.400
<v Nancy Magarill>Kristen Bell.

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.080
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, I knew she was an NYU grad.

00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:18.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>No.

00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:19.920
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>Rob Reiner, Rob Reiner.

00:24:21.540 --> 00:24:25.060
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, I was going to say that, but then I was like, maybe not.

00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:25.860
<v Peter Michael Marino>It would have been hard to...

00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:27.640
<v Peter Michael Marino>We wouldn't have guessed that.

00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:28.940
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, it seems far from Rob.

00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:31.080
<v Peter Michael Marino>Rob Marshall is why I thought of Rob Reiner.

00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:31.800
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:24:31.800 --> 00:24:36.340
<v Peter Michael Marino>Hey, Daniel, when you were young, a student, how did you prepare?

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.680
<v Daniel Spector>You mean how did I prepare for acting class specifically as a student?

00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:48.240
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, you were talking about other students, like your students now, and how they prepare, and maybe they're not preparing enough, and they're not putting in the work, right?

00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>Maybe you're not saying that about all your students.

00:24:49.780 --> 00:24:50.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>You were anyway...

00:24:50.500 --> 00:24:54.280
<v Nancy Magarill>I think he was talking about the classes, that they were not being run that way.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:58.980
<v Daniel Spector>I just mean really what I'm talking about is, well, two things.

00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:00.620
<v Daniel Spector>One, I think...

00:25:00.620 --> 00:25:02.040
<v Nancy Magarill>Clearly, we've been listening.

00:25:02.060 --> 00:25:11.380
<v Daniel Spector>I don't want to diss this generation, but I do think there's maybe been a devaluation of just sheer practice and time spent practicing your craft.

00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:18.220
<v Daniel Spector>If 10,000 hours is true to master something, that's years of acting practice.

00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:20.700
<v Nancy Magarill>Do you think it's because of the internet and phones?

00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:30.120
<v Daniel Spector>Oh, I mean, the statistics of how long we all, much less a 14-year-old spends on their phone every day, is enough to make you sick.

00:25:30.120 --> 00:25:31.600
<v Daniel Spector>But I'm also talking about this...

00:25:32.420 --> 00:25:35.540
<v Daniel Spector>Acting training was never meant to be in a university.

00:25:36.600 --> 00:25:41.360
<v Daniel Spector>It's a phenomenon that's taken shape over a few decades because of a few forces.

00:25:41.360 --> 00:25:47.360
<v Daniel Spector>So the idea that you sort of get your acting training done in three or four years.

00:25:47.360 --> 00:26:00.300
<v Daniel Spector>Whoever said that was how long it took, and also at NYU, the great strength of the program is when you get a BFA in drama at NYU, you're kind of getting two degrees.

00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:12.680
<v Daniel Spector>You're getting your conservatory training, but you're also taking quite a load of academic classes to the extent that you can really double major without spending more time or money just because the academic requirements are so high.

00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:18.220
<v Daniel Spector>So we have people doing, I write letters of recommendation for med school sometimes.

00:26:18.220 --> 00:26:24.220
<v Daniel Spector>So we've got people doing their drama degrees and also their chemistry double major and things like that.

00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:25.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>Smart.

00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:35.060
<v Daniel Spector>So that's cool in one sense, but it does divide their attention, and maybe doesn't provide as much practice time as I think this art form requires.

00:26:35.060 --> 00:26:38.380
<v Peter Michael Marino>But you, when you were their age, how did you?

00:26:38.380 --> 00:26:39.160
<v Peter Michael Marino>What were you like?

00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:39.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>I don't know you.

00:26:39.900 --> 00:27:01.380
<v Daniel Spector>Before I met Louie, I was a preparer, I was a hard worker, but before I met Louie, I was doing what young actors do for the most part, which is, okay, so I'm playing this character who's on a first date and is extremely nervous because they're really attracted to this other person, and haven't been on a date, let's say, ever, right?

00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:02.660
<v Daniel Spector>And so what am I doing?

00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:08.060
<v Daniel Spector>I'm probably thinking about representing nervousness, right?

00:27:08.060 --> 00:27:12.460
<v Daniel Spector>And how do I avert my gaze from that person when it's too uncomfortable?

00:27:13.020 --> 00:27:16.400
<v Daniel Spector>How am I fidgeting with my clothes, et cetera?

00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:22.040
<v Daniel Spector>And so I'm doing all what you might call the externals of a performance.

00:27:22.040 --> 00:27:23.420
<v Daniel Spector>And what I probably wasn't-

00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:27.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>Did teachers tell you that you're indicating or we see it or you're not?

00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:36.580
<v Daniel Spector>Well, one of the reasons why I wanted to go work with someone else, like Louie, is frankly, my teachers were praising me for my representational skills.

00:27:36.580 --> 00:27:40.800
<v Daniel Spector>I guess I did nervous on a first date really well.

00:27:40.800 --> 00:27:41.920
<v Peter Michael Marino>Was that like your thing?

00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:46.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>Was that kind of the track you saw yourself going up or down?

00:27:46.120 --> 00:27:47.740
<v Peter Michael Marino>I'm going to be the nervous guy?

00:27:47.780 --> 00:27:49.820
<v Daniel Spector>The nebbishy, anxious Jew?

00:27:49.820 --> 00:27:51.260
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah, that was my thing.

00:27:51.260 --> 00:27:53.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, lots of opportunities for that, right?

00:27:53.420 --> 00:27:54.680
<v Daniel Spector>That was definitely my track.

00:27:54.940 --> 00:27:59.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>This was the time of Brighton Beach Memoirs and every regional theater.

00:27:59.800 --> 00:28:04.340
<v Peter Michael Marino>You could be in one of four of his shows and still be the same character.

00:28:04.340 --> 00:28:10.080
<v Nancy Magarill>It's so funny though, having known you for so long now, I cannot see you doing that.

00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:12.540
<v Nancy Magarill>You so do not project that at all.

00:28:12.540 --> 00:28:16.220
<v Nancy Magarill>So that's just so funny to me that you would even think you would be typecast that way.

00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:19.920
<v Daniel Spector>That is my soul, now you know.

00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:31.600
<v Daniel Spector>So yeah, I would be doing what the great Russian acting teacher, director, Konstantin Stanislavsky would call representation.

00:28:31.600 --> 00:28:36.760
<v Daniel Spector>What I wouldn't be thinking about is, for example, what do I want from this person?

00:28:37.940 --> 00:28:38.580
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah.

00:28:38.580 --> 00:28:42.240
<v Nancy Magarill>See, when I went to a theater conservatory, that is what they taught us though.

00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:43.360
<v Nancy Magarill>What do I want?

00:28:43.360 --> 00:28:44.940
<v Nancy Magarill>It was all about what do you want.

00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:45.920
<v Daniel Spector>Yes, of course.

00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:47.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>Ours was, what's your action?

00:28:47.780 --> 00:28:54.140
<v Peter Michael Marino>And that terminology, no one ever just said, they're just saying, what do you want?

00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:55.440
<v Peter Michael Marino>What is your obstacle?

00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:56.960
<v Nancy Magarill>What's your objective?

00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:57.880
<v Peter Michael Marino>What's your objective?

00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:02.140
<v Peter Michael Marino>I just needed someone to just go, what does your character want here?

00:29:02.140 --> 00:29:03.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>What's getting in the way?

00:29:03.020 --> 00:29:04.160
<v Daniel Spector>All right, go.

00:29:04.420 --> 00:29:12.740
<v Daniel Spector>And action is a term that we certainly use, although it's something I've learned that five different acting teachers will use ten different ways.

00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:28.200
<v Daniel Spector>So the essential question of acting, no matter whose studio you are in, at least around the Western world, someone somewhere is asking their student, what does your character want, right?

00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:32.520
<v Daniel Spector>And then action comes in with the second question, which is, and what are they doing to get it?

00:29:32.520 --> 00:29:44.760
<v Daniel Spector>The way I use action with my students is to think about, there are ways when we communicate with each other that are what you might call purely informational, right?

00:29:44.760 --> 00:29:56.240
<v Daniel Spector>If we're trying to figure out where to go to dinner tonight and we're shooting the shed about restaurants and what time do we want to meet here, chances are we're just sharing information with each other.

00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:04.340
<v Daniel Spector>It's not a particularly active conversation, but if we get in a, start to get in an argument about where to go to dinner, right?

00:30:04.340 --> 00:30:08.520
<v Daniel Spector>And it becomes so heated, this argument, right?

00:30:08.800 --> 00:30:15.620
<v Daniel Spector>That just information won't suffice, that I'm actually starting to do things to you with my words, right?

00:30:15.620 --> 00:30:19.200
<v Daniel Spector>Maybe I want you to shut the fuck up, right?

00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:24.720
<v Daniel Spector>So with my words, I clamp your mouth closed, for example, right?

00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:34.180
<v Daniel Spector>That there are moments in other words in life where we're not just relaying information to one another, but we're actually making a kind of contact with each other, with our words.

00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:40.780
<v Daniel Spector>Even if we're 10 feet away, there's a kind of contact going on, usually in the service of some form of persuasion, right?

00:30:40.780 --> 00:30:51.940
<v Daniel Spector>So when I at least talk about action with my students, it's to key them into this aspect of communication that drama often draws on.

00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:56.500
<v Daniel Spector>To take another example, you're a New Yorker, so you've probably done this before.

00:30:56.500 --> 00:31:06.120
<v Daniel Spector>You see someone walking across the street who is not aware that there's a car that is not intent on breaking coming from around the corner, right?

00:31:06.980 --> 00:31:12.620
<v Daniel Spector>And you see that person walking, you see them in danger, but you can't get there quickly enough to grab them yourself.

00:31:12.620 --> 00:31:15.720
<v Daniel Spector>So you say, you yell, stop, right?

00:31:16.300 --> 00:31:18.320
<v Daniel Spector>Or you say, wait, right?

00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:24.540
<v Daniel Spector>But you're probably not just saying that, you're actually stopping them with those words, right?

00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:28.440
<v Daniel Spector>Maybe you're not picturing gripping their arm.

00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:29.620
<v Nancy Magarill>You're trying to save them.

00:31:29.620 --> 00:31:30.620
<v Daniel Spector>You're gripping them.

00:31:30.620 --> 00:31:31.340
<v Daniel Spector>You're saving them.

00:31:31.340 --> 00:31:35.880
<v Daniel Spector>You're grabbing them, or you're pushing them to the other corner so they get there as quickly as possible, right?

00:31:36.040 --> 00:31:36.340
<v Daniel Spector>Why?

00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:41.160
<v Daniel Spector>Because you need to, because the thought of seeing them run over by a car is too much to bear.

00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.660
<v Daniel Spector>So in a sense, you're playing action, right?

00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:45.440
<v Daniel Spector>You're playing an action.

00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.220
<v Daniel Spector>You're doing something with your word.

00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:52.760
<v Daniel Spector>You're doing something with that word stop, rather than just representing what it feels like to stop someone.

00:31:52.760 --> 00:31:53.680
<v Daniel Spector>Does that make some sense?

00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:54.740
<v Nancy Magarill>Absolutely.

00:31:54.740 --> 00:31:55.300
<v Daniel Spector>You know?

00:31:55.300 --> 00:32:00.660
<v Daniel Spector>So you can be as general with actions as saying, oh, he's seducing her right now, right?

00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:03.980
<v Daniel Spector>But I tend to want to get more specific with my students.

00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Daniel Spector>So you say, okay, you're seducing her.

00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:06.440
<v Daniel Spector>What are you doing?

00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:07.220
<v Daniel Spector>How are you doing that?

00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:08.900
<v Daniel Spector>What are you actually doing?

00:32:08.900 --> 00:32:12.700
<v Daniel Spector>If you were indeed physically making contact with that person, how would that go?

00:32:12.700 --> 00:32:14.220
<v Daniel Spector>What would be the first move?

00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:16.680
<v Daniel Spector>And then I'd say, can you do that with your words?

00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:27.800
<v Daniel Spector>Isn't it the isn't when we go to a performance and we see an actor just sort of like generally emoting on stage or screaming or crying without any clear sense of what's going on?

00:32:27.800 --> 00:32:32.580
<v Daniel Spector>Isn't the question we at least half consciously ask in that moment is, what are you doing?

00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:32.940
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:33.300
<v Daniel Spector>Right.

00:32:33.300 --> 00:32:34.560
<v Daniel Spector>We instinctively go to action.

00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.300
<v Daniel Spector>What are you doing?

00:32:35.300 --> 00:32:38.040
<v Daniel Spector>Why are you just screaming right now?

00:32:38.040 --> 00:32:38.900
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah.

00:32:38.900 --> 00:32:43.060
<v Nancy Magarill>But when there's an action behind it, you feel it and you're right there with them.

00:32:43.060 --> 00:32:44.300
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah.

00:32:44.300 --> 00:32:47.520
<v Daniel Spector>Good actors seem to do that.

00:32:47.520 --> 00:32:59.320
<v Nancy Magarill>I think it's why I love watching Mark Rylance so much, is because I feel like he is just in that every friggin second of every moment he's on a stage.

00:32:59.320 --> 00:33:06.660
<v Nancy Magarill>There's certain actors that I'm just mesmerized by their ability to do that.

00:33:08.600 --> 00:33:20.220
<v Daniel Spector>Mark Rylance has really mastered the art of what I consider to be your first responsibility as an actor, which is providing the audience with the illusion that everything's happening for the first time.

00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:20.960
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.400
<v Daniel Spector>That you're thinking that thought for the first time, that you're making that discovery for the first time.

00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:35.340
<v Daniel Spector>And what's brilliant about Mark Rylance is you will almost never go watch a performance of his, at least a live performance that has been recorded versus a film and TV.

00:33:35.340 --> 00:33:45.120
<v Daniel Spector>But even film and TV, you will rarely see his eyebrows furrow into what you might call problem face, right?

00:33:45.120 --> 00:33:57.240
<v Daniel Spector>Because what he knows really well is that when you're experiencing something for the first time, for example, someone calls you a horrible slur of some kind, right?

00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:06.460
<v Daniel Spector>Your very first response to hearing that horrible word, right, is often not going to be anger or frustration.

00:34:06.520 --> 00:34:08.220
<v Nancy Magarill>It's going to be a gasp or something.

00:34:08.220 --> 00:34:10.180
<v Daniel Spector>It's going to be, wait, did I hear that?

00:34:10.180 --> 00:34:11.500
<v Daniel Spector>Did I hear that correctly?

00:34:12.460 --> 00:34:17.340
<v Daniel Spector>Something like that might be the very micro first moment.

00:34:17.720 --> 00:34:23.260
<v Daniel Spector>He's comfortable living in that space of not knowing enough, not knowing too much.

00:34:23.600 --> 00:34:40.740
<v Daniel Spector>And I think it's one of the reasons why he's so exciting as a performer and why audiences feel so much ownership, because he's at the same timeline of the story as we are, rather than what actors would do as an actor, which is to be like two clicks ahead, right?

00:34:40.740 --> 00:34:50.600
<v Nancy Magarill>And this is what we talk about, Pete, all the time, is that this is the joy of acting that makes it exciting as an actor to do that every night.

00:34:50.600 --> 00:35:00.440
<v Nancy Magarill>Because one of the things we talk about, Daniel, is that the job of an actor is to do that night after night after night in performance after performance.

00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:16.180
<v Nancy Magarill>And that to me is part of the thrill of acting, is that if you can do that every performance, it takes such intense discipline and concentration to be able to be in the moment.

00:35:16.580 --> 00:35:20.580
<v Nancy Magarill>Maybe it does for some, maybe for some, maybe for someone like Mark Rylance, it doesn't take that.

00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:27.580
<v Nancy Magarill>But I think being able to be in the moment like that is what makes it so thrilling as a performer.

00:35:27.580 --> 00:35:33.700
<v Nancy Magarill>For me, I know, Pete, that's not for you, but I think that is what makes it so exciting.

00:35:33.700 --> 00:35:40.360
<v Nancy Magarill>Finding, finding all those moments as an actor and being able to find that every night.

00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:47.080
<v Daniel Spector>It's a beautiful paradox that it takes so much preparation and practice to improvise, right?

00:35:47.080 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Daniel Spector>To improvise a rehearsed set text.

00:35:50.140 --> 00:35:51.840
<v Daniel Spector>Yeah.

00:35:51.840 --> 00:36:05.760
<v Daniel Spector>There's also, let's not undersell tricks, because one thing Rylance does, and you'll never unhear it or unsee it if you haven't noticed it already, is he will sort of break an unwritten rule.

00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:32.740
<v Daniel Spector>He speaks verse really well, I should say, and he follows the verse structure really well, but what he does to make at least himself feel or the audience feel like this is all happening for the first time is he'll say, to be or not to be, that is the question, whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and he adds little us into it, which is of course what we do all the time.

00:36:32.740 --> 00:36:33.880
<v Nancy Magarill>Absolutely.

00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:44.080
<v Daniel Spector>I'm forgetting the linguistic term for it, not filler, but there's a term for when you say like or you know, or add an uh or an um, we do that to sort of, what are we doing?

00:36:44.080 --> 00:36:46.620
<v Daniel Spector>We're summoning the next thought, we're summoning the next word.

00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:56.660
<v Daniel Spector>It's a good clue that someone is thinking something for the first time as opposed to, how many times do you hear a politician being interviewed with us and ums?

00:36:56.660 --> 00:36:59.820
<v Daniel Spector>No, because they're providing canned, rehearsed responses.

00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:04.540
<v Nancy Magarill>Now, I'm feeling guilty about editing out all the ums in the episodes.

00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:06.800
<v Daniel Spector>Do you really?

00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:07.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>I have said that.

00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:12.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>I think maybe we need to be careful because you're actually like taking away part of their personality.

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:24.060
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, I do because what happens though when people are interviewed is that they um is, it's every other word and it's not when you're listening to an interview, you don't want to hear ums.

00:37:24.060 --> 00:37:25.880
<v Nancy Magarill>I'm going to edit this out by the way.

00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.900
<v Daniel Spector>But once the brain starts listening for those, you can't hear anything else.

00:37:29.900 --> 00:37:30.220
<v Daniel Spector>I do.

00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:34.420
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, and it's the ums and the coughs and the tsk, tsk, tsk.

00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:35.660
<v Nancy Magarill>There are certain things that um.

00:37:35.660 --> 00:37:48.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>The thing is that when Rylance is in a long run of a show, even the trying to find the word bits become part of, they are repeated nightly.

00:37:48.820 --> 00:37:49.080
<v Peter Michael Marino>They become-

00:37:49.080 --> 00:37:51.900
<v Nancy Magarill>Probably not in the same space though.

00:37:51.900 --> 00:37:52.580
<v Nancy Magarill>Who knows?

00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:55.220
<v Peter Michael Marino>Probably not in the same space.

00:37:55.220 --> 00:38:02.880
<v Daniel Spector>Another person I considered to be a mentor of mine is a man named Tim Carroll, who ran the Globe with Mark Rylance for many years.

00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:06.200
<v Nancy Magarill>That's who Tony Bell was talking about.

00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:12.440
<v Nancy Magarill>Tony was talking about Tim and Mark, and Mark had tried to get Tony into the Globe.

00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:24.100
<v Daniel Spector>So Tim and Mark are longtime collaborators, and Tim Carroll directed for any New Yorkers out there who happened to be here about 10 years ago.

00:38:24.100 --> 00:38:34.060
<v Daniel Spector>There were productions in rotation of 12th Night and Richard the Third on Broadway with Mark Rylance playing Olivia in 12th Night and Richard in Richard the Third.

00:38:34.060 --> 00:38:35.440
<v Nancy Magarill>I saw him in 12th Night.

00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:42.860
<v Daniel Spector>Tim directed those productions quite beautifully, and Tim doesn't just go in and tell people what he thinks about the play.

00:38:42.860 --> 00:38:54.460
<v Daniel Spector>He goes in and works with actors, like an acting teacher, and trains them, and very often those performances begin with the cast backstage playing improvisation games.

00:38:54.460 --> 00:39:02.740
<v Daniel Spector>So when they get out there for the 300th performance of The Twelfth Night, they feel like they can play, as opposed to recite.

00:39:02.740 --> 00:39:16.260
<v Daniel Spector>And so I wouldn't be surprised if you did a sort of metrical study on the us and ums in his performance of, let's say, Olivia in Twelfth Night, that they really did fall all over the place over the course of time.

00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:17.140
<v Peter Michael Marino>All right.

00:39:17.140 --> 00:39:17.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>All right.

00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:18.400
<v Peter Michael Marino>That gives me hope.

00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:20.120
<v Nancy Magarill>I want to jump really quickly.

00:39:20.120 --> 00:39:27.500
<v Nancy Magarill>One of the things you and I talked about was the audition process for young actors to get into a really great theater conservatory.

00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:31.320
<v Nancy Magarill>Do you have any thoughts for them that you want to share?

00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:38.880
<v Daniel Spector>Best advice I can give if there's a 17-year-old listening to this podcast, thinking about going to a school.

00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:42.200
<v Daniel Spector>First of all, we're not all on the same page.

00:39:43.560 --> 00:39:49.700
<v Daniel Spector>We people behind the table, so someone I think has got great potential that thought might not be shared by my colleagues.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:40:08.080
<v Daniel Spector>There's no science to this, but the best advice I could give besides breathe is be really clear about what you want and what you're doing on at least the first moment, and then ask yourself what's different by the end of the monologue.

00:40:08.080 --> 00:40:22.920
<v Daniel Spector>It just needs to be one thing different by the end of that monologue, because 95% of the auditions I see are 90 seconds of someone being upset at the beginning and upset at the end and nothing changing.

00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Daniel Spector>So find at least one moment where things change over the course of that monologue, and you'll be miles ahead of many of the other people who are auditioning.

00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:33.320
<v Peter Michael Marino>We're just giving this information away.

00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:34.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>We're giving it away.

00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:38.660
<v Nancy Magarill>But that is for anyone auditioning, not just for kids going into theater conservatory.

00:40:38.660 --> 00:40:39.260
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, that's what I'm saying.

00:40:39.260 --> 00:40:44.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>This is unbelievably good advice and easy to digest.

00:40:44.120 --> 00:40:45.760
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, I love that.

00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:46.580
<v Nancy Magarill>It's so funny.

00:40:46.580 --> 00:40:55.160
<v Nancy Magarill>While you were saying that, I was thinking of a monologue that I had been working on, and I'm like, I want to go back to that and see where I am with that now.

00:40:55.160 --> 00:41:26.720
<v Daniel Spector>It's why, you know, when they say one comedic and one dramatic, it's such a useless language, because it's, you know, especially with the dramatic, my dramatic monologue, because it's just, it's luring actors into representing an emotional state for 90 seconds, rather than what they should be doing, which is find the humor in the dramatic monologue and find the darkness in the comedic monologue, and you're already more interesting.

00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:27.200
<v Peter Michael Marino>Do that.

00:41:27.200 --> 00:41:28.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>Give us a salt and pepper monologue.

00:41:28.820 --> 00:41:30.640
<v Daniel Spector>There we go.

00:41:30.640 --> 00:41:31.760
<v Peter Michael Marino>Hey, thanks for checking us out.

00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.560
<v Peter Michael Marino>Links to today's guests can be found in the show notes.

00:41:34.560 --> 00:41:39.540
<v Nancy Magarill>Don't forget to subscribe, like us, rate us, and tell all your friends about Arts and Craft.