Arts and Craft
A new chat show that dives into the lives of musicians, filmmakers, performers, and artists from all walks of life, revealing the untold stories and hidden secrets that drive their creativity. Hosted by Nancy Magarill and Peter Michael Marino.
Arts and Craft
Bill Bowers - Mime and actor
Bill Bowers is an accomplished mime & award-winning actor who has performed on Broadway and stages across the world. He is also a gifted teacher in the art of storytelling and movement. On this episode we chat about on the beautiful "art of silence", the difference between mime and pantomime, and the legendary Marcel Marceau. www.Bill-Bowers.com
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Bill has performed throughout the United States, Europe, and Asia. His Broadway credits include Zazu in The Lion King, and Leggett in The Scarlet Pimpernel. Currently Bill appears in the television series Before starring Billy Crystal, and in the feature film Lost Cause. His other film and tv work includes Two Weeks’ Notice, Disney’s Out of the Box, Remember W.E.N.N, All My Children, the PBS adaptation of Peter and the Wolf.
A student of the legendary Marcel Marceau, Bill is hailed by critics as one of the great mimes of our generation. Bill’s work as a mime is featured in the PBS documentary series Brief But Spectacular.
An award-winning performer and playwright, Bill’s work has garnered top honors and rave reviews worldwide, including The Edinburgh Fringe, and festivals in Germany, Estonia, Singapore, Korea, China, Thailand, Poland, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia, Norway, Puerto Rico, Texas, Ohio, and NYC.
His original plays include All Over the Map, Beyond Words, Under a Montana Moon, It Goes Without Saying, Heyokah/Hokehay, Johnny Got His Gun, and The Traveler.
Bill holds an MFA from Rutgers University’s Mason Gross School of the Arts, and an Honorary PhD from Rocky Mountain College. Presently Bill serves on the faculties of Stella Adler Studio and the William Esper Studio and has been a visiting professor at Princeton University, Williams University, University of Wyoming, and Ohio University, among others.
This Spring Bill will be a teaching artist at the Terezin Ghetto, a former concentration camp in the Czech Republic. With other international artists and students, he will devise a theatre piece, linking history with current events, understanding the continuum of time and its impact on our lives.
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Produced and Edited by Arts and Craft.
Theme Music: Sound Gallery by Dmitry Taras.
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<v Bill Bowers>I love it when people try new things, and I feel like once you learn the vocabulary, if I understand what you want me to see and feel, then it's working.
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<v Bill Bowers>What you're doing is working if you brought me with you.
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<v Bill Bowers>That's important to me, is to help people find their own way.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>He is an accomplished mime, an award-winning actor who has performed on Broadway and stages across the world.
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<v Nancy Magarill>He is also a gifted teacher in the art of storytelling and movement.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Bill Bowers breaks his silence on today's episode.
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<v Nancy Magarill>My name is Nancy Magarill.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I'm a singer, songwriter, composer, performer, graphic and web designer.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>And I'm Peter Michael Marino, and I'm a writer, producer, creator, performer and educator.
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<v Nancy Magarill>We are New York-based artists you may or may not have heard of.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>And we are here to introduce you to other artists you may or may not have heard of.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>I was telling this story to Joel Jeske on the train last night.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And who is Joel Jeske?
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Joel Jeske is a clown, and we all work in a very similar circle of people, clowns and mimes and acrobats and all those people.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>And I was telling him about your dress rehearsal for Montana Moon in Edinburgh.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>And I'd love for you to tell it because I'm sure I tell it wrong, but my version is very good.
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<v Bill Bowers>No, I was gonna say, I think your version is probably better.
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<v Bill Bowers>I'll tell my version is that I do this 75 minute show about why I became a mime and it gets increasingly more heartfelt and more intimate.
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<v Bill Bowers>And at the very end of the show, it ends with me doing this pantomime, this silent pantomime, very romantic pantomime of me.
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<v Bill Bowers>It's a farmer who falls in love with the moon and he pulls the moon out of the sky.
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<v Bill Bowers>And in the midst of that silent beauty, it was, we were in Edinburgh and it was the Edinburgh, what was it, Peter?
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<v Bill Bowers>Was it the?
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's the military tattoo, which happens every day during the Fringe where they celebrate the war.
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<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>With marching bands and canons and rifles.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's like the most beautiful, silent, serene.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Your venue was like five floors up in this old building, which I think was a, what are those people called with the symbol they build thing?
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<v Bill Bowers>Oh, the-
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Shriners.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's in Peggy Sue Got Married.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, the Amish?
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<v Peter Michael Marino>No, it's those people, and they have the sign of the compass is their sign, and it's like a secret club.
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<v Bill Bowers>What are they called?
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<v SPEAKER_4>What the hell is it called?
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Damn, whoever's listening right now.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Knights of the something.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Don't worry about it.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Templar.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Knights of the Templar is one of them.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>But it's the equivalent of the Flintstones, when Fred and Barney wear those big yak hats with the horns.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's basically, it's the equivalent of the L.
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<v Nancy Magarill>All right, I'm getting farther and farther away.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>This is going great.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's like, it's a magical space and it's a magical moment and Bill's a magical performer.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>The show is peppered with words and mime and it's just, and he's gonna lasso the moon.
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<v SPEAKER_4>And it's just so peaceful and bang, bang, ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba boom, boom, boom.
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<v Nancy Magarill>You actually told this story on another episode.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, I love it.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's totally my kind of humor.
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<v Bill Bowers>That you were there was kind of the perfect, that was the perfect part of it.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>But it never happened, it never happened again because it was just a rehearsal at the timing.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, thank God it was just a rehearsal.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I was gonna say, how did you deal with that?
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<v Nancy Magarill>Like if that was a live show, because we've all had crazy stuff happen during live shows, what would you do if that happened?
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<v Nancy Magarill>Would you just change the ending?
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<v Bill Bowers>Oh, I mean, I kind of can't change the ending.
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<v Bill Bowers>I mean, based on everything else that's happened in the plays, so I would have just carried on or, pretend like I've been shot or nothing.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's Edinburgh.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Everyone knows that shit happens.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>You know, there was always like, they were always dumping out the bottles or you know, pints or whatever in the bar behind me at the same time, pretty much every show.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>And you just kind of make a joke about it or roll with it.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>There would be a band that would start playing on a stage in the courtyard, in the beer garden, just as I was starting my show.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>So I would just say, oh, I'm sorry I didn't introduce my backup band.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I used to play at Cafe Cheney on 8th Street, and I had a song called You Say You Know Me.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And one of the lyrics was, because if you knew me, you would have known the way I take.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And then there's a big long pause, My Coffee.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And so Cheney, Jen, Jennifer who ran Cafe Cheney, every time she would ask me at the beginning of the show, are you going to do that song tonight?
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<v Nancy Magarill>And I'm like, yeah.
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<v Nancy Magarill>So she would have it queued up.
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<v Nancy Magarill>So as soon as I would take that pause, she'd run the cappuccino machine.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Because it was all coffee and stones and things like that.
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<v Nancy Magarill>It was so great.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And it became a thing.
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<v Nancy Magarill>But it was so great to have that.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Did you ever have to speak in a mime show that you didn't expect to have to speak, but you just had to something, you know, a dog ran up on stage or something?
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<v Bill Bowers>No, I have had dogs run up on stage while I've been on stage.
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<v SPEAKER_4>Well, you didn't talk about it.
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<v Bill Bowers>No, I don't.
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<v Bill Bowers>I don't break that rule when I'm really being a mime.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I'm curious about how, first of all, what made you go into mime?
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<v Nancy Magarill>And then also just on that, what Pete was talking about, what do you do because you know that people are always trying to goad you if you're ever in a place where people are close enough.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I'm sure now you're doing shows where there's a distance.
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<v Nancy Magarill>But at some point in your career, you must have been in a place where you were mime-ing and people were trying to break you or coming up really close.
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<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, I have many, many stories about that, yeah.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And what would you do?
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<v Bill Bowers>The best example of that is many years ago, in the 80s, I used to be the mechanical man who was one of those robotic mimes.
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<v Bill Bowers>It was very popular in the 80s.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, you have the little whistle in your mouth?
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<v Bill Bowers>I didn't have the whistle.
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<v Bill Bowers>I probably should have added that.
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<v Bill Bowers>But I was mechanical and people thought I was a statue and then they would get near me and I'd move, that kind of thing.
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<v Bill Bowers>And I'd perform at malls and well basically anywhere they'd let me.
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<v Bill Bowers>And one time I was at an arts festival somewhere in New Jersey in the summer and it was outside in a park that had a big pond and I had found this kind of rock that was like raised up.
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<v Bill Bowers>So it was a good stage for me and I was pretending to be this statue and this kid, I don't know, he was just a little demon.
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<v Bill Bowers>I think his mother just slowed the car down and threw him out because he was just marauding around this park.
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<v Bill Bowers>He was probably 10 or 11, he was just a monster.
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<v Bill Bowers>And of course he found the mime and he started terrorizing me.
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<v Bill Bowers>And it went on the whole day, he would come up behind me.
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<v Bill Bowers>I mean, he would like snap his fingers in my eyes or he hit me in the back of the knees and people, you know, no one really intervened.
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<v Bill Bowers>Every once in a while, someone would yell out like, Hey kid, leave the clown alone or something.
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<v Bill Bowers>But he just left his own devices.
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<v Bill Bowers>And I have a very long fuse as a person, but I wanted to kill this kid.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I'm sure.
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<v Bill Bowers>It just kept getting worse.
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<v Bill Bowers>He was putting his fingers in my nose.
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<v Bill Bowers>And so by afternoon, I had made a plan and that kid kept getting closer and closer and closer to me.
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<v Bill Bowers>And finally, he got just close enough to me that I could grab him.
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<v Bill Bowers>I grabbed him, picked him up and threw him in the pond.
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<v SPEAKER_4>Yay!
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<v Bill Bowers>From all around the park, people went.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Amazing.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And where was, did his mother come up or anyone after?
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<v Bill Bowers>Nobody, nobody.
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<v Bill Bowers>Everybody just applauded me because he was so awful.
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<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.
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<v Bill Bowers>So if you're a listening kid.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Right.
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<v Nancy Magarill>He's probably a mime now.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>He probably has his own podcast talking about being traumatized as a child.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Probably.
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<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, that is crazy.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I love that.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Today, you would be arrested for that.
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<v Bill Bowers>I know, I know.
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<v Bill Bowers>A different time.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>And going back to Nancy's initial question, how did you land in the world of mime?
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, you do, I should let the listeners know, you do many, many, many other things.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, your resume is pretty amazing.
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<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
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<v Bill Bowers>I'm an actor.
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<v Bill Bowers>I'm a performer and a writer.
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<v Bill Bowers>But I've always had an interest in mime since a very young age.
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<v Bill Bowers>And it's funny, I actually wrote a whole play about that very question.
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<v Bill Bowers>Why did I become a mime?
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<v Bill Bowers>And that's what I was doing in Edinburgh as a matter of fact.
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<v Bill Bowers>But the short answer to this is that I'm a mime because I'm from Montana, which is a big quiet place.
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<v Bill Bowers>And I grew up in a rural area.
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<v Bill Bowers>My mom's family homesteaded in Montana.
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<v Bill Bowers>So I feel like it's in my DNA.
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<v Bill Bowers>We've been out there since the Oregon Trail.
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<v Bill Bowers>So I've always been around this big silence that I was very drawn to.
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<v Bill Bowers>I'm also from a big quiet family that talks about nothing.
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<v Bill Bowers>And so very early on in my life.
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<v Bill Bowers>Is it avoidance?
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<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
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<v Bill Bowers>Like stoicism, that just kind of 50s American, let's not talk about anything hard.
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<v Bill Bowers>Not on comps.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Especially children's, children be seen, not heard, right?
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<v Bill Bowers>Exactly, yeah.
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<v Bill Bowers>And so I was paying attention to a lot of that.
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<v Bill Bowers>And mostly I was paying attention because I'm also a gay man, and they were really not talking about that.
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<v Bill Bowers>I mean, the word gay didn't really even exist when I was a little kid.
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<v Bill Bowers>So I've always imagined it's kind of those three circles of silence.
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<v Bill Bowers>Montana, my family, and being a gay kid in a small town.
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<v Bill Bowers>So I didn't know what mime was, but I knew I was really good at at not talking.
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<v Bill Bowers>Very familiar with that world.
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<v Bill Bowers>And when I found out there was an art of of silence, I think I learned it through people like Charlie Chaplin, certainly who I loved, and Danny Kay, and people I saw on TV.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Shields and Yarnell, I think.
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<v Bill Bowers>Shields and Yarnell.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>That was your time.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh my God, I forgot about them.
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<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>I was obsessed.
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<v Bill Bowers>I was too.
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<v Bill Bowers>I just knew that that was a world I knew, and I just stepped into it.
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<v Nancy Magarill>So you're also an actor.
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<v Nancy Magarill>Do you feel more comfortable in mime because of that silence, because of growing up in that?
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Big head nodding, head nodding, everyone.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>Bill Bowers has the best head of hair.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's really annoying, so good.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I don't know, between him and Melinda Buckley, it's sort of a toss up.
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<v Peter Michael Marino>She has pretty great hair, too.
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<v Nancy Magarill>She has pretty great hair.
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<v Bill Bowers>No, I feel very familiar and comfortable in mime.
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<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, it's just always been my go-to.
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<v Bill Bowers>It's kind of supported the work I do as an actor.
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<v Bill Bowers>I do a lot of roles that are really physical and that kind of thing.
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<v Bill Bowers>But I love the world of nonverbal physical theater.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I love that you said the art of silence.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And it's funny, because I grew up thinking of it as mime only, but the art of silence puts such a different view on it, because it really is an art.
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<v Nancy Magarill>And there is something about being able to, I mean, your family, it's different when it's avoidance, but to be able to be in that silence and to be creating something in that space that also is very communicative without overdoing it.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I feel, I almost feel like now every actor should experience that and should work on mime with that kind of mindset.
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<v Nancy Magarill>You know, there's something to it.
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<v Nancy Magarill>I don't know that I never really thought about.
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<v Nancy Magarill>It's the same thing with clowning, right?
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<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, I teach a lot in New York City and other places, and one of the things I always have students do is to tell me, you know, like, for example, right after the holidays, I'll say, tell me about your holiday vacation or your break, but you can't use any word.
00:10:48.380 --> 00:10:51.160
<v Bill Bowers>And that's very interesting things come up.
00:10:51.160 --> 00:10:53.840
<v Bill Bowers>And by and large, they're very emotional.
00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:54.700
<v Peter Michael Marino>Wow.
00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:55.280
<v Peter Michael Marino>Like what?
00:10:55.280 --> 00:10:56.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>Give us an example.
00:10:56.300 --> 00:10:56.880
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh.
00:10:56.880 --> 00:10:57.960
<v Nancy Magarill>Well, it would be hard.
00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.100
<v Nancy Magarill>It's not, that's not great podcast material, but.
00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:05.940
<v Bill Bowers>Visiting family, you know, the whole thing about your home again.
00:11:05.940 --> 00:11:08.400
<v Peter Michael Marino>Putting on a different face for the family.
00:11:08.400 --> 00:11:10.040
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, totally.
00:11:10.040 --> 00:11:11.160
<v Bill Bowers>It comes up all the time.
00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:12.300
<v Bill Bowers>So I agree, Nancy.
00:11:12.300 --> 00:11:15.460
<v Bill Bowers>I think it's great training for actors to just take away with the words.
00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:18.020
<v Bill Bowers>And then what can you tell us if you couldn't say a word?
00:11:18.020 --> 00:11:18.520
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.
00:11:18.520 --> 00:11:30.100
<v Nancy Magarill>I mean, it's sort of like you do exercises as an actor when you're a young actor in acting class, where they give you one word and you have to communicate a whole story through that one word, or you have to get someone to do something.
00:11:30.100 --> 00:11:32.960
<v Nancy Magarill>It's like what we were talking about with Daniel Spector, action.
00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:36.960
<v Nancy Magarill>You have to take action or get someone to do something with one word.
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:42.100
<v Nancy Magarill>It's not the same thing with mine because you're kind of telling a whole story when you're miming.
00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:47.760
<v Nancy Magarill>So when you're creating a piece, what's the process of coming up with a project that you know is going to be all mine?
00:11:47.760 --> 00:11:53.600
<v Bill Bowers>For me, usually I've started writing plays in a way that have nonverbal sections.
00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:57.940
<v Bill Bowers>I actually should just admit to you that I actually speak as a mime, too.
00:11:57.940 --> 00:12:03.980
<v Bill Bowers>I use mime, but I also use it in combination with text and in combination with music and voiceover.
00:12:03.980 --> 00:12:07.760
<v Bill Bowers>But I generally start with looking for the question I want to answer.
00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:11.660
<v Bill Bowers>So the play that we've been referring to is a play called It Goes Without Saying.
00:12:11.660 --> 00:12:17.760
<v Bill Bowers>And it was based on the question that everybody asks, like you asked me five minutes ago, why are you a mime?
00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:18.440
<v Bill Bowers>Why are you a mime?
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.420
<v Bill Bowers>I ended up writing a whole play just answering that question.
00:12:21.540 --> 00:12:27.100
<v Bill Bowers>Like, what was my experience that led to being interested in not talking?
00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:28.700
<v Bill Bowers>So I look for a question.
00:12:28.700 --> 00:12:31.740
<v Bill Bowers>I wrote another play very much about like, what it is to be a boy?
00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:32.740
<v Bill Bowers>What's a boy?
00:12:32.740 --> 00:12:33.500
<v Bill Bowers>What's a man?
00:12:33.500 --> 00:12:34.220
<v Bill Bowers>That kind of thing.
00:12:34.220 --> 00:12:36.720
<v Bill Bowers>So I look for a question I want to answer.
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:40.340
<v Bill Bowers>And I don't know that I think narratively as much as I used to.
00:12:40.340 --> 00:12:46.360
<v Bill Bowers>Now I think almost like imagistically, I think an image that I find really interesting to me.
00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:52.380
<v Bill Bowers>Like I wrote a piece once about a kid, a boy, who goes to a circus in the early 50s.
00:12:52.380 --> 00:13:00.740
<v Bill Bowers>And it's a little bit, it's based on my experience as a kid, and also a story someone told me about going to a small town carnival where there was a freak show.
00:13:00.740 --> 00:13:06.180
<v Bill Bowers>And so I had this story in my mind that happened to someone that shared it with me.
00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:13.120
<v Bill Bowers>And then I had an image of this child with balloons just flying up away, like flying away out of the circus, out of this little town.
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.620
<v Bill Bowers>And so sometimes it's imagistic and I kind of work back from that.
00:13:16.900 --> 00:13:19.960
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, you know, it's funny thinking about what prompts us to create.
00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:23.120
<v Nancy Magarill>I used to write, like for me, writing songs.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:29.980
<v Nancy Magarill>I sometimes would have dreams where I would wake up in the middle of a dream and I record my dream knowing it's a song.
00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:37.320
<v Nancy Magarill>Or I would just hear a lyric as I'm walking down the street or I'd have an image of something, whatever it is that sparks our creativity.
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.700
<v Nancy Magarill>And I love that approach to writing a play.
00:13:40.920 --> 00:13:44.700
<v Nancy Magarill>I struggle with writing anything more than just one song.
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:50.360
<v Nancy Magarill>For me, the through line of a song is so much easier than a whole piece.
00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:56.240
<v Nancy Magarill>So I find that fascinating that you can keep that up going through a whole play that can propel you.
00:13:56.240 --> 00:14:01.700
<v Bill Bowers>Well, it's not an easy ride, but that's the starting place.
00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:08.080
<v Bill Bowers>But I have a friend who's a songwriter and she said to me one time, building a house is easier than writing a song.
00:14:09.220 --> 00:14:09.640
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, wow.
00:14:09.640 --> 00:14:13.460
<v Nancy Magarill>I cannot even, I can't even fathom that.
00:14:13.460 --> 00:14:19.960
<v Peter Michael Marino>I think we're also fortunate in the clown slash mime world.
00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:23.260
<v Peter Michael Marino>I do want to discuss the difference between the two.
00:14:23.260 --> 00:14:29.740
<v Peter Michael Marino>In that there are many opportunities to present just what you're working on, just a short amount.
00:14:29.740 --> 00:14:36.720
<v Peter Michael Marino>As opposed to playwrights, you're pretty much going to finish the play, have a reading of the play, rewrite the play.
00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:38.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, that can be two and a half hours.
00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:41.360
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's just like you're never really trying out.
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:42.600
<v Peter Michael Marino>I just want to hear this one scene.
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:47.620
<v Peter Michael Marino>But with us, I would say that your shows are a series of vignettes.
00:14:47.620 --> 00:14:49.340
<v Peter Michael Marino>Is that fair to say?
00:14:49.340 --> 00:14:54.320
<v Peter Michael Marino>That are connected through a theme or going towards a goal.
00:14:54.320 --> 00:15:08.960
<v Peter Michael Marino>So yeah, we do have a greater opportunity in that world to try out our stuff, which also in some weird way makes the project seem more digestible and possible to achieve, because you're just doing it in small bits.
00:15:09.380 --> 00:15:09.920
<v Bill Bowers>I agree.
00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:11.280
<v Bill Bowers>That's how I work all the time.
00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:13.480
<v Bill Bowers>And some of it is because I think I'm lazy.
00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.280
<v Bill Bowers>And I think, let me just, I'm going to get five minutes done.
00:15:16.280 --> 00:15:17.680
<v Bill Bowers>But I do that as a teacher too.
00:15:17.680 --> 00:15:23.900
<v Bill Bowers>I just ask people, let's look at five minutes of this and then talk about that and see what worked, what didn't, what's next.
00:15:23.900 --> 00:15:24.080
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:27.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>Aren't students always amazed at like, wait, we're going to talk about, I'm going to do five minutes.
00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:29.360
<v Peter Michael Marino>I'm going to talk about it for more than five.
00:15:29.780 --> 00:15:31.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>We can talk about it for a half an hour.
00:15:31.420 --> 00:15:33.060
<v Bill Bowers>And we're going to work on it more?
00:15:33.060 --> 00:15:35.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>Trust me, you only want five.
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.480
<v Peter Michael Marino>Trust me, you could have a really boring five, right?
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:39.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's really possible.
00:15:39.420 --> 00:15:40.660
<v Peter Michael Marino>You could have a boring two.
00:15:40.660 --> 00:15:47.600
<v Nancy Magarill>But it's a good way to work because it's a good way to just get a chunk and whatever its inspiration or that becomes something else later.
00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:48.500
<v Nancy Magarill>Like, who knows?
00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:49.360
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.180
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you teach mime and clown or only mime?
00:15:52.180 --> 00:15:54.180
<v Bill Bowers>Well, Peter, I am not a clown.
00:15:54.180 --> 00:15:54.840
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, you are not.
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:55.680
<v Bill Bowers>Let me be clear.
00:15:55.680 --> 00:15:56.220
<v Peter Michael Marino>OK.
00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:58.220
<v Bill Bowers>I don't have any training as a clown in any way.
00:15:58.540 --> 00:16:00.180
<v Bill Bowers>I love clowns.
00:16:00.180 --> 00:16:01.220
<v Bill Bowers>I love good clowning.
00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:01.640
<v Bill Bowers>I love it.
00:16:01.640 --> 00:16:04.000
<v Bill Bowers>But I don't think I'm brave enough to be a clown.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, what are we talking about?
00:16:05.520 --> 00:16:20.940
<v Peter Michael Marino>The same type of clown, because I feel like you do the clown thing of being able to take in the whole audience, acknowledge we're there without saying a word, show us you have a problem as we enjoy watching you try to achieve your goal or overcome that problem.
00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:21.600
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:22.760
<v Nancy Magarill>But is that clowning?
00:16:22.760 --> 00:16:24.360
<v Nancy Magarill>Is that really what clowning is?
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:30.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>That's pretty much every clown thing you ever see is, you know, Slava Snow Show.
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:42.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>He has a giant snowball that he has to get across the stage, but it's too heavy or the wind is too strong or anything Bill Irwin or David Shiner does is like pretty much the same thing.
00:16:42.300 --> 00:16:46.020
<v Nancy Magarill>I saw Slava, Slava Snow in Paris when I was there.
00:16:46.020 --> 00:16:47.800
<v Nancy Magarill>I think it was the first time I was there.
00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:50.580
<v Nancy Magarill>And that show brought me to tears.
00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:56.420
<v Nancy Magarill>I was bawling my eyes out and a little girl looked up at me that was sitting next to me.
00:16:56.540 --> 00:16:58.760
<v Nancy Magarill>She's like asked me in French, why are you crying?
00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:04.080
<v Nancy Magarill>There was one scene where he goes to a coat hanger and there's a huge suitcase.
00:17:04.080 --> 00:17:09.660
<v Nancy Magarill>He does this whole thing, putting on this heavy jacket, this heavy coat and the suitcase and the suit.
00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:11.520
<v Nancy Magarill>And then you hear the sound of a train.
00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:15.000
<v Nancy Magarill>And it was one of those old suitcases, those vintage suitcases.
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:21.320
<v Nancy Magarill>And the train all just what went on in my mind was the Holocaust, the sound of the train.
00:17:21.320 --> 00:17:23.600
<v Nancy Magarill>And I just, that's when I lost it.
00:17:23.600 --> 00:17:30.340
<v Nancy Magarill>So that was when this little girl, she didn't, and I wasn't going to explain to her why I was crying.
00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:31.720
<v Nancy Magarill>But it was so powerful.
00:17:32.340 --> 00:17:36.680
<v Nancy Magarill>That's clowning to me in that way can be just so powerful.
00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:37.960
<v Peter Michael Marino>But Bill's not a clown.
00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:38.560
<v Nancy Magarill>I know.
00:17:38.560 --> 00:17:41.880
<v Bill Bowers>Well, I just think it's a different toolbox in a way.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.840
<v Bill Bowers>I mean, there is like, it's you in front of an audience.
00:17:44.840 --> 00:17:46.820
<v Bill Bowers>But I think...
00:17:46.820 --> 00:17:47.780
<v Nancy Magarill>Then we're all clowns.
00:17:47.780 --> 00:17:48.280
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:17:48.280 --> 00:17:58.600
<v Bill Bowers>I think mime is different than then there's this other technique, and certainly in pantomime, that's this whole idea of illusion and creating objects and creating environments that aren't really there.
00:17:58.600 --> 00:17:59.580
<v Bill Bowers>They're imaginary.
00:17:59.600 --> 00:18:00.080
<v Bill Bowers>What is it?
00:18:00.080 --> 00:18:02.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>There's a difference between pantomime and mime?
00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:03.340
<v Bill Bowers>There is, yeah.
00:18:03.340 --> 00:18:05.080
<v Bill Bowers>Pantomime is what we all know.
00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:10.920
<v Bill Bowers>Pantomime is this kind of like, I'm going to create something that looks like it's there, but it's not really there.
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.640
<v Peter Michael Marino>Bill is putting his hands up and doing a, that's a mirror or a window that I cannot get through.
00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:16.880
<v Bill Bowers>I'm doing the wall, yeah.
00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:17.880
<v Bill Bowers>And mime.
00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:20.700
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh yeah, look at me, you're doing a wall and I'm seeing a mirror, isn't that?
00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:21.720
<v Peter Michael Marino>That says a lot about me.
00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:24.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>You get your fingerprints all over the mirror.
00:18:24.820 --> 00:18:26.560
<v Bill Bowers>Right, but mime.
00:18:26.580 --> 00:18:28.600
<v Nancy Magarill>I saw the wall, just so you know, Bill.
00:18:28.600 --> 00:18:30.000
<v SPEAKER_4>I saw the wall.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.860
<v Peter Michael Marino>Mime.
00:18:30.860 --> 00:18:32.620
<v Bill Bowers>Mime is less concrete.
00:18:32.620 --> 00:18:48.640
<v Bill Bowers>Mime is the idea, is the essence of something, like a gesture that gives a whole meaning to a character or rather than giving a story about like, picking a flower and giving a flower to someone else.
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:50.020
<v Bill Bowers>In mime, you are the flower.
00:18:50.020 --> 00:18:52.080
<v Bill Bowers>You are the feeling of the flower.
00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:59.740
<v Bill Bowers>So it's the, I always think it is the essential imagery in mime and pantomime is the concrete story of mime.
00:18:59.740 --> 00:19:06.220
<v Bill Bowers>It's like, I would say pantomime is, if you think about literature, pantomime is a narrative story and mime is poetry.
00:19:06.220 --> 00:19:13.920
<v Bill Bowers>Where like in poetry, it's a limited amount of text, but within the limit, within the constraint of that, something much larger can appear.
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:15.580
<v Bill Bowers>That's what I feel.
00:19:15.580 --> 00:19:21.360
<v Nancy Magarill>That is, and it's funny, because I don't think I've ever heard anyone make a distinction between that.
00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:29.620
<v Bill Bowers>Well, that being said, I blend the ideas together, but it's also like, you're a songwriter, so I would say it's almost like writing a short story or writing a song.
00:19:29.760 --> 00:19:32.660
<v Bill Bowers>It's like the, what do they call that?
00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:40.760
<v Bill Bowers>The exquisite constriction, that allows something to come out of that, that's even larger and maybe even more universal.
00:19:40.760 --> 00:19:45.420
<v Bill Bowers>Because your imaginations really kick in, I think, with a mime.
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:51.080
<v Bill Bowers>Just like when you said about the Holocaust, just the sound of the train and a suitcase, that was you making that happen.
00:19:51.080 --> 00:19:52.420
<v Bill Bowers>I think that's the power.
00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:56.240
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, absolutely, I was projecting on to that, absolutely.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:56.960
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:01.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>You also have appeared in several Broadway shows.
00:20:01.780 --> 00:20:06.660
<v Peter Michael Marino>Were you in Scarlett Pimpernel's versions 1 and 2?
00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:07.420
<v Bill Bowers>Just one.
00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:08.820
<v Nancy Magarill>Were you with Ron Boehmer?
00:20:08.820 --> 00:20:10.540
<v Bill Bowers>I know him, yeah, we didn't work together.
00:20:10.540 --> 00:20:11.660
<v Nancy Magarill>I went to school with him.
00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:13.520
<v Nancy Magarill>Different version?
00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:14.900
<v Bill Bowers>He's a great guy, yeah.
00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:17.460
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you were in The Lion King.
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.220
<v Bill Bowers>The Lion King, yeah.
00:20:18.220 --> 00:20:21.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>From the beginning, like the first Swarm show?
00:20:21.120 --> 00:20:23.420
<v Bill Bowers>No, I'm the first replacement.
00:20:23.420 --> 00:20:24.400
<v Bill Bowers>You are.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.640
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:26.060
<v Bill Bowers>It's funny.
00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:28.660
<v Bill Bowers>I was.
00:20:28.660 --> 00:20:34.320
<v Bill Bowers>I was up for The Lion King when it was the original production, and I didn't get it, of course, was heartbroken.
00:20:34.320 --> 00:20:35.180
<v Peter Michael Marino>For the role of?
00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:37.040
<v Bill Bowers>For the role of Zazu.
00:20:37.040 --> 00:20:38.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>Which is the bird.
00:20:38.120 --> 00:20:38.460
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:42.840
<v Bill Bowers>And I was really down to the very, very end, and they went with someone who was older.
00:20:42.840 --> 00:20:44.900
<v Bill Bowers>They wanted to be an older character.
00:20:44.900 --> 00:20:47.740
<v Bill Bowers>And then about a month later, I got to Scarlet Pimpernel.
00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:57.200
<v Bill Bowers>And interestingly, I went to the Scarlet Pimpernel, and that's where I met my now husband, who was also up for The Lion King and didn't get it the first time.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:58.180
<v Peter Michael Marino>As a performer?
00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:01.300
<v Bill Bowers>No, as a wardrobe supervisor.
00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:04.280
<v Bill Bowers>So we ended up both not getting the job we thought we were going to get.
00:21:04.280 --> 00:21:08.520
<v Bill Bowers>We ended up at Scarlet Pimpernel Met, and then we both moved to The Lion King a year later.
00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:09.320
<v Nancy Magarill>Kismet.
00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:10.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh my gosh.
00:21:10.420 --> 00:21:11.380
<v Bill Bowers>It's the shirt.
00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:12.280
<v Nancy Magarill>It was, yes.
00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:18.880
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you were able to wild them with a puppet performance with all of your years of puppetry training?
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:20.060
<v Peter Michael Marino>How did that happen?
00:21:20.060 --> 00:21:25.660
<v Bill Bowers>I didn't really have, I had a little bit of puppetry knowledge, but it was mostly physicalizing things.
00:21:25.660 --> 00:21:26.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>Right.
00:21:26.780 --> 00:21:35.700
<v Bill Bowers>But I had toured for many years, I think Peter, you know this, I had toured the country as Slim Goodbody, the America's Health Hero.
00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:37.800
<v Bill Bowers>And there was a puppet in that show.
00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:39.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>Nancy, you don't know Slim Goodbody?
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:43.520
<v Bill Bowers>He was a character originally on the Captain Kangaroo show.
00:21:43.660 --> 00:21:45.340
<v Bill Bowers>That became its own thing.
00:21:45.340 --> 00:21:50.740
<v Bill Bowers>And it was a character who wore a spandex body suit with all the organs and muscles painted on it.
00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:51.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>No penises though.
00:21:51.780 --> 00:21:52.420
<v Nancy Magarill>No penis.
00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:53.080
<v Nancy Magarill>Of course not.
00:21:53.080 --> 00:21:57.860
<v Bill Bowers>And I would sing and do a musical show about how your body works and how to take care of it.
00:21:57.860 --> 00:21:59.960
<v SPEAKER_4>Wow.
00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:02.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>That guy that created it, franchised it basically, right?
00:22:02.620 --> 00:22:05.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>It was a guy with big curly brown hair, wasn't he?
00:22:05.020 --> 00:22:06.240
<v Bill Bowers>John Burstein, yeah.
00:22:06.300 --> 00:22:11.140
<v Bill Bowers>He had originated on Captain Kangaroo, and then he hired me to kind of carry it forward.
00:22:11.140 --> 00:22:13.460
<v Bill Bowers>And then we had many Slim Good Bodies through the years.
00:22:13.460 --> 00:22:16.380
<v Bill Bowers>I think they're still out there, but this all preceded the internet.
00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:17.620
<v Nancy Magarill>Wait, whose phone is on?
00:22:17.620 --> 00:22:18.860
<v Nancy Magarill>Somebody just dinged.
00:22:18.860 --> 00:22:21.220
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, we must have hit upon something very important.
00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:23.960
<v Nancy Magarill>I know, but the angels are singing.
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:30.640
<v Peter Michael Marino>So, okay, so you were touring around the country as Slim Good Body going into schools and telling kids to eat their vegetables.
00:22:30.940 --> 00:22:34.000
<v Bill Bowers>Yes, and a puppet would come out named Barbara Seville.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:34.740
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh.
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:38.940
<v Bill Bowers>And Barbara would sing an aria about personal hygiene.
00:22:38.940 --> 00:22:41.400
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh my goodness.
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:42.800
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh my God.
00:22:42.800 --> 00:22:43.260
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.
00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:45.420
<v Nancy Magarill>And you toured around the country doing that?
00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:48.280
<v Bill Bowers>All over the country for, get ready, seven years.
00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:49.780
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.
00:22:49.780 --> 00:22:51.580
<v Nancy Magarill>How often were you on the road?
00:22:51.580 --> 00:23:00.360
<v Bill Bowers>I was on the road five days a week for, you know, it was during school years and, you know, and I would appear at like museums and hospitals and health fairs and that kind of thing.
00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:02.420
<v Bill Bowers>But it was a big full time job.
00:23:02.420 --> 00:23:07.000
<v Bill Bowers>But the first part of it, I was a single guy and I loved traveling.
00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:08.420
<v Bill Bowers>And I just absolutely loved it.
00:23:08.420 --> 00:23:11.200
<v Bill Bowers>I just did in a rental car driving around in my little spandex.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:12.560
<v Nancy Magarill>I think I would have loved that.
00:23:12.560 --> 00:23:13.180
<v Bill Bowers>It was fun.
00:23:13.180 --> 00:23:13.880
<v Bill Bowers>I had a blast.
00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:14.340
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:23:14.340 --> 00:23:17.600
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you did it all without cell phones, without computers.
00:23:17.600 --> 00:23:18.660
<v Peter Michael Marino>You just knew where to go.
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:21.840
<v Peter Michael Marino>You had a map that you had to look at while you were driving.
00:23:22.360 --> 00:23:26.460
<v Bill Bowers>I remember AAA and the American Auto Association.
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:28.940
<v Bill Bowers>I would go there and get maps and check my way.
00:23:28.940 --> 00:23:30.420
<v Nancy Magarill>All of us would use maps.
00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:31.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.
00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:32.440
<v Bill Bowers>Remember those days.
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:33.520
<v SPEAKER_4>Yeah.
00:23:33.520 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Bill Bowers>But I loved it.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:35.880
<v Nancy Magarill>We're so aging ourselves.
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:37.820
<v Bill Bowers>I know.
00:23:37.820 --> 00:23:44.260
<v Bill Bowers>But also as performers, I mean, I think we all know some of the best training you can get is in front of kids.
00:23:44.260 --> 00:23:49.180
<v Bill Bowers>So doing three shows a day, five days a week for kids is really interesting training.
00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:50.540
<v Bill Bowers>You really can't cheat.
00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:52.540
<v Bill Bowers>You have to show up.
00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:53.740
<v Bill Bowers>So I feel like, show up.
00:23:53.740 --> 00:23:54.600
<v Bill Bowers>Did you hear that, Peter?
00:23:54.600 --> 00:23:55.060
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.
00:23:55.060 --> 00:23:56.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, I know.
00:23:56.800 --> 00:23:59.480
<v Bill Bowers>I really feel like it was very helpful for me.
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:07.160
<v Peter Michael Marino>How long did you perform in The Lion King before your infamous, what do you call it?
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:07.640
<v Peter Michael Marino>Incident?
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:08.180
<v Peter Michael Marino>No.
00:24:08.800 --> 00:24:09.360
<v Nancy Magarill>What is it?
00:24:09.380 --> 00:24:10.040
<v Nancy Magarill>What is this?
00:24:10.040 --> 00:24:10.560
<v Nancy Magarill>What happened?
00:24:10.560 --> 00:24:11.600
<v Peter Michael Marino>We're gonna get to it.
00:24:12.360 --> 00:24:13.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>A mishap?
00:24:13.020 --> 00:24:13.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>No, no.
00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:15.060
<v Nancy Magarill>Did you fall on stage or something?
00:24:15.060 --> 00:24:15.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>No, no, no, no, no.
00:24:15.800 --> 00:24:17.060
<v Peter Michael Marino>This is a good story.
00:24:17.060 --> 00:24:19.460
<v Peter Michael Marino>Only if you're comfortable or allowed to share it.
00:24:19.860 --> 00:24:20.940
<v Bill Bowers>I tell it everywhere.
00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:22.040
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:24:22.300 --> 00:24:27.520
<v Bill Bowers>I think I was in, I think I had done, oh my gosh, 400-something shows.
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:29.420
<v Bill Bowers>It was, let me think for a moment.
00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:31.000
<v Peter Michael Marino>I did not realize that.
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:32.060
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, I was well into it.
00:24:32.060 --> 00:24:33.200
<v Bill Bowers>It was like five or six months ago.
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Peter Michael Marino>You did it with Max Casella as well?
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:35.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>Was he doing To Mote?
00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:36.220
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.
00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:37.740
<v Nancy Magarill>Are we talking about Lion King?
00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:39.960
<v Bill Bowers>We're about Lion King, okay.
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:52.000
<v Bill Bowers>Max left pretty early on, but I was doing the Lion King and playing this bird, which involved a lot of, you know, it's a traditional puppet in the Lion, like this rod puppet, they had to use triggers in your hands.
00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:01.180
<v Bill Bowers>And what I didn't realize in doing the show, you know, eight to nine times a week and rehearsals and adrenaline and all that stuff is I was really wearing down my tendons.
00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:01.740
<v Bill Bowers>Oh.
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:10.080
<v Bill Bowers>And I just knew that I was tired, but one day walking to work, my hands stopped working and they started swelling up like hams.
00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:21.800
<v Bill Bowers>And I ended up in the hospital for 10 days and they finally were able to diagnose, my hands were like purple, but they diagnosed me with ulnar nerve damage and tinnitus and ovitis and tendonitis.
00:25:21.800 --> 00:25:24.640
<v Bill Bowers>And it was all from just manipulating the tendons.
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:29.440
<v Bill Bowers>You know, your tendons are basically rubber bands, and they stretch and stretch until they finally snap.
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.780
<v Bill Bowers>And gratefully, my body stopped me before my tendons snapped.
00:25:33.780 --> 00:25:36.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>And before you were in front of 2,000 people.
00:25:36.120 --> 00:25:37.320
<v Peter Michael Marino>You do.
00:25:37.320 --> 00:25:37.740
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:38.080
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:38.240
<v Nancy Magarill>Wow.
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>And did they not redesign the pup?
00:25:40.020 --> 00:25:42.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>Did they not redesign the pup big mechanism after that?
00:25:42.520 --> 00:25:42.980
<v Bill Bowers>They did.
00:25:42.980 --> 00:25:46.440
<v Bill Bowers>They redesigned it, which was a huge investment for Disney.
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:48.840
<v Bill Bowers>And so they were very interested in me coming back.
00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Bill Bowers>And as soon as I got back into the show, after being out for, I think, 10 or 12 weeks, trying to like, I had to relearn how to move my fingers.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.340
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.
00:25:57.340 --> 00:25:59.760
<v Bill Bowers>I went back in and I could feel it starting again.
00:25:59.760 --> 00:26:07.260
<v Bill Bowers>And luckily, that coincided right when I met Marcel Marceau and came in contact with Marcel Marceau.
00:26:07.280 --> 00:26:11.920
<v Bill Bowers>And that led me leaving the Lion King and heading off to study with an old French mime.
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:12.060
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.
00:26:12.060 --> 00:26:12.860
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh my gosh.
00:26:12.860 --> 00:26:13.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>I thought it was the other way around.
00:26:13.780 --> 00:26:22.380
<v Nancy Magarill>You know, just real quickly, I had, I lost, I actually had shoulder surgery and I lost the use of my right hand as well.
00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:23.980
<v Nancy Magarill>I have it, it's back.
00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:29.300
<v Nancy Magarill>I had to, not being able to use your hand, it's wild having to rework moving.
00:26:29.300 --> 00:26:31.040
<v Nancy Magarill>I couldn't close my hand.
00:26:31.100 --> 00:26:38.280
<v Nancy Magarill>It's real, people don't realize like the things that we get used to being able to do on a regular basis, how easy it is to mess that up.
00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:39.260
<v Bill Bowers>Exactly, yeah.
00:26:39.260 --> 00:26:43.700
<v Nancy Magarill>And that's a big thing on Disney to not have thought about that in advance, right?
00:26:43.700 --> 00:26:46.060
<v Nancy Magarill>I'm sure other people had problems with it as well.
00:26:46.060 --> 00:26:54.900
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, there have been lots of problems through the years, but I mean, in their defense, I think they had never done anything like The Lion King at the level it was going to be done.
00:26:54.900 --> 00:27:01.460
<v Bill Bowers>You know, so all of a sudden it's like that Broadway schedule and everything is kinetic.
00:27:01.460 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Bill Bowers>Everything is done with their hands, and so it just was incredible overuse of muscles.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.600
<v Bill Bowers>So just like-
00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:08.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>And repetition, repetition, repetition.
00:27:08.780 --> 00:27:11.060
<v Peter Michael Marino>Sometimes it's only three hours in between.
00:27:11.060 --> 00:27:11.840
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, yeah.
00:27:11.840 --> 00:27:15.380
<v Bill Bowers>But I know Peter, you were in Stomp and similar kind of thing.
00:27:15.380 --> 00:27:29.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, there's people who have lifelong, I mean, I'm pretty sure my lower back issues are from lifting my own weight in a T-chest in a 3,000 seat theater going across a football stadium size stage.
00:27:29.580 --> 00:27:31.100
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, I feel it now.
00:27:31.100 --> 00:27:37.100
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's like, yeah, lots of folks just, they did it for many years and then went, oh no, I can't do this anymore.
00:27:37.100 --> 00:27:54.680
<v Nancy Magarill>So before we talk about working with Marcel Marceau, which is fascinating to me, I want to just quickly talk about what you do to keep yourself fit, so you don't hurt yourself, because mine, you have to have a core that is so strong and your body has to be, you have to have complete command of your body, right?
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:55.940
<v Bill Bowers>Hopefully, yeah.
00:27:55.940 --> 00:27:58.100
<v Nancy Magarill>So what do you do to maintain it?
00:27:58.100 --> 00:28:00.780
<v Bill Bowers>Well, it's an interesting, it's an ongoing process.
00:28:00.780 --> 00:28:02.080
<v Bill Bowers>I'm 65 now.
00:28:02.080 --> 00:28:02.840
<v Bill Bowers>I know I don't look it.
00:28:02.840 --> 00:28:03.840
<v Nancy Magarill>Congratulations.
00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:04.440
<v Bill Bowers>Thank you.
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:10.660
<v Bill Bowers>But it is a thing, something I really think about all the time, because I really am still working and I really want to keep working.
00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:28.020
<v Bill Bowers>So the thing that I've discovered after years of doing physical therapy for many years and going to the gym for many years, which I've always hated and never been very good at, I discovered about 20, I guess around the time that I started in the Lion King, I started doing yoga and that evolved into doing hot yoga.
00:28:28.020 --> 00:28:30.900
<v Bill Bowers>And I've been doing that for 25 plus years now.
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:33.180
<v Bill Bowers>And I went this morning, I went yesterday.
00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:38.040
<v Bill Bowers>And for me, that is the thing that has allowed me to keep this going.
00:28:38.040 --> 00:28:38.300
<v Nancy Magarill>Wow.
00:28:38.300 --> 00:28:46.780
<v Bill Bowers>The whole idea of yoga and also the heat of it, that fact that your muscles really can release and it really focuses on breathing and that kind of thing.
00:28:46.780 --> 00:28:50.920
<v Bill Bowers>So I'm a huge proponent of hot yoga.
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:52.820
<v Nancy Magarill>I've heard about it for so long.
00:28:52.820 --> 00:28:56.020
<v Nancy Magarill>Do you go on 8th Street or something?
00:28:56.020 --> 00:28:59.700
<v Bill Bowers>I go to Modo Yoga, which is on 6th Avenue and 10th Street.
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:03.260
<v Bill Bowers>And I was there the day that studio opened.
00:29:03.260 --> 00:29:04.260
<v Bill Bowers>I started there.
00:29:04.260 --> 00:29:05.120
<v Bill Bowers>I'm just a fan.
00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:05.660
<v Bill Bowers>I just love them.
00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:09.120
<v Bill Bowers>I'm going out to LA to perform next week and I'm going to Modo out there.
00:29:09.300 --> 00:29:11.600
<v Bill Bowers>And I've done it and that's what I do.
00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:12.280
<v Nancy Magarill>That's great.
00:29:12.280 --> 00:29:19.000
<v Bill Bowers>It's really good for my brains and just stress and anxiety and remembering to breathe.
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.320
<v Bill Bowers>So it's good for that, but it's also just great muscularly for me.
00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:23.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>Your show is playing all the time.
00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:25.880
<v Peter Michael Marino>Your shows, you have several, are playing.
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:30.480
<v Peter Michael Marino>I remember a few months or maybe a couple of years ago, I was like, dude, how do you re-memorize all that?
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.540
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're like, I know, I know.
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:34.640
<v Bill Bowers>Well, COVID, yeah.
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:54.760
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, prior to COVID, I have three, well, four shows that I was doing very regularly, and I just had them all in my brain and in my body, and then COVID hit, and if you sit home for a year and I turned 60 then too, it was like, oh my God, this is a whole different ballgame to try to kinesthetically keep that going, and also just remember words.
00:29:54.760 --> 00:29:56.600
<v Bill Bowers>So it's an ongoing thing.
00:29:56.600 --> 00:30:04.800
<v Bill Bowers>I'm about to do another show, older show of mine that I haven't done in years, and I really have to put myself on a schedule of re-learning it.
00:30:04.840 --> 00:30:09.220
<v Bill Bowers>It used to just all be in there, and I didn't worry, but now I'm a little worried.
00:30:09.220 --> 00:30:11.340
<v Nancy Magarill>Can we talk about Marcel Marceau?
00:30:11.340 --> 00:30:18.280
<v Nancy Magarill>So you were at the Lion King working, and did you just, by chance, meet him, or what happened?
00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:28.600
<v Bill Bowers>No, I obviously knew who Marcel Marceau was from a very young age, and I had seen him perform many, probably 20 sometimes.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.360
<v Bill Bowers>I was really, really inspired by him.
00:30:31.360 --> 00:30:36.560
<v Bill Bowers>He had come to Montana, where I'm from, when I was a 17-year-old, and my mom bought me a ticket.
00:30:36.560 --> 00:30:38.440
<v Bill Bowers>And that was a really big part of my life.
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:40.180
<v Bill Bowers>Like, that is what I want to do.
00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:45.220
<v Bill Bowers>But in meeting him, I was doing the Lion King, and I got injured as we were talking about.
00:30:45.220 --> 00:30:50.280
<v Bill Bowers>And one night, honestly, at the hospital, I was watching late night TV.
00:30:50.740 --> 00:30:53.180
<v Bill Bowers>My arms were in these casts.
00:30:53.180 --> 00:31:01.140
<v Bill Bowers>And on the TV came a late night news story about the world's most famous mime going on his 80th birthday world tour.
00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:04.620
<v Bill Bowers>And it was just a, it was one of those moments, like, bing.
00:31:04.620 --> 00:31:07.200
<v Bill Bowers>I just thought, wow, he's 80.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.960
<v Bill Bowers>My arms are in casts.
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.300
<v Bill Bowers>I've never studied mime, really, with anybody.
00:31:11.300 --> 00:31:12.520
<v Bill Bowers>I was a self-taught mime.
00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:16.020
<v Bill Bowers>I thought, if I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna have to do it now.
00:31:16.020 --> 00:31:18.000
<v Bill Bowers>And I called him on the phone the next day.
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:19.880
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh my God, that's great.
00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:22.020
<v Bill Bowers>I love the image of two mimes talking on the phone.
00:31:22.040 --> 00:31:23.720
<v SPEAKER_4>Right?
00:31:23.780 --> 00:31:25.360
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's a great title for a show too.
00:31:25.360 --> 00:31:25.900
<v Bill Bowers>Right, right.
00:31:26.100 --> 00:31:32.980
<v Bill Bowers>But I really sought him out, and he wasn't very interested in me because I had never studied mime.
00:31:33.140 --> 00:31:35.320
<v Bill Bowers>I thought, well, I'll sell him on me being an actor.
00:31:35.320 --> 00:31:37.200
<v Bill Bowers>Like, I'm on Broadway, I've done all these things.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:39.100
<v Bill Bowers>That was absolutely no interest to him.
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.100
<v Bill Bowers>He wanted young people who wanted to be pure mimes.
00:31:42.100 --> 00:31:46.020
<v Bill Bowers>But eventually, I jumped through a lot of hoops for him, but he eventually accepted me.
00:31:46.020 --> 00:31:50.160
<v Bill Bowers>And then I just went out with him on and off for the next three years when he was touring.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:51.820
<v Bill Bowers>I just traveled with him and studied.
00:31:51.820 --> 00:31:52.380
<v Bill Bowers>It was amazing.
00:31:52.460 --> 00:32:00.500
<v Bill Bowers>It was really hard because he was really famous, really French, and old and older.
00:32:00.500 --> 00:32:02.520
<v Nancy Magarill>I like that, really French.
00:32:02.520 --> 00:32:05.320
<v Bill Bowers>Really French, like from another way of teaching.
00:32:05.320 --> 00:32:08.640
<v Nancy Magarill>Old time French, it's a whole different mentality.
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:09.080
<v Bill Bowers>You know, that master.
00:32:09.080 --> 00:32:11.280
<v Peter Michael Marino>But it wasn't like a Golié experience, was it?
00:32:11.280 --> 00:32:14.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>Like that you went home every day feeling terrible about yourself.
00:32:14.300 --> 00:32:15.800
<v Bill Bowers>Oh my God, yeah.
00:32:15.800 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, you did, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:17.700
<v Bill Bowers>Oh my God.
00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:19.280
<v Peter Michael Marino>I thought they were similar tracks.
00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:21.980
<v Peter Michael Marino>So there we go, clown, mime, clown, mime, similarity.
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:24.960
<v Peter Michael Marino>Somebody else we talked to was Golié.
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>Someone else in our podcast was saying, oh, that's a lot.
00:32:27.800 --> 00:32:28.240
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:28.960
<v Bill Bowers>Oh, it was awful.
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:33.400
<v Peter Michael Marino>Especially when you're not a kid, when you're like, I'm not putting up with being talked to like this.
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:33.960
<v Bill Bowers>What?
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:36.720
<v Bill Bowers>I packed my bags and walked to the bus station one night.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:38.320
<v SPEAKER_4>Oh, of course.
00:32:38.320 --> 00:32:38.980
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're done.
00:32:38.980 --> 00:32:40.380
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, it was horrible.
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.180
<v Bill Bowers>But part of it was he was from another time and he taught in the masterclass style.
00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:46.940
<v Bill Bowers>You didn't ask him any questions.
00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:49.400
<v Bill Bowers>He was not a nurturing kind of person.
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:54.560
<v Bill Bowers>And, you know, we as Americans, I just think we're a little bit spoiled on how we've been taught in a way.
00:32:54.560 --> 00:32:58.340
<v Bill Bowers>And so for me, I had to get over myself more than anything else.
00:32:58.340 --> 00:33:04.640
<v Bill Bowers>I had to just, you know, it's that classic, like, careful if you meet your heroes, they might not be what you cast them to be.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.160
<v Bill Bowers>And he was brilliant.
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.460
<v Bill Bowers>He was also just a brilliant performer.
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:10.200
<v Bill Bowers>And I tried to focus on that.
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:13.620
<v Nancy Magarill>And I mean, it might not have been a great teacher, but, you know.
00:33:13.620 --> 00:33:15.480
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, I don't think he really was interested in teaching.
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.660
<v Bill Bowers>He had to teach at the end of his life because that's how he was making a living.
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:22.120
<v Bill Bowers>But, I mean, he's in my every move still.
00:33:22.120 --> 00:33:26.580
<v Bill Bowers>So I know it was the right thing for me to do, but it was also probably the hardest thing I'd ever done.
00:33:26.580 --> 00:33:30.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>So now you're a teacher and you're not teaching the way you were taught, are you?
00:33:30.520 --> 00:33:30.880
<v Bill Bowers>No.
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:37.940
<v Bill Bowers>In fact, it's also something I want to credit Marcel Marceau because I think it made me a better teacher having him.
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:49.360
<v Bill Bowers>Because I realized what was missing for me, and I have really made that a big proponent of how I teach, is to really present mime as a universal language.
00:33:49.360 --> 00:33:51.320
<v Bill Bowers>It's something we all have the ability to do.
00:33:51.320 --> 00:33:57.840
<v Bill Bowers>It's something we all use every day as opposed to, it's this form you will never get to where I am.
00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:02.700
<v Bill Bowers>Marcel Marceau was like, you will never achieve what I do.
00:34:02.700 --> 00:34:11.640
<v Bill Bowers>So I'm a nurturer as a teacher, and I really encourage people to find their own physical voice.
00:34:11.640 --> 00:34:19.840
<v Bill Bowers>I credit him for that because it was a big lesson for me and what would have helped me excel more and not want to kill myself.
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:25.320
<v Nancy Magarill>Is there a different physical way people can mime?
00:34:25.740 --> 00:34:28.220
<v Nancy Magarill>So pantomime is the wall.
00:34:28.220 --> 00:34:33.380
<v Nancy Magarill>You have to set those boundaries so nobody, people feel that barrier.
00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:37.720
<v Nancy Magarill>But yet, is there a fluid way to mime that people find?
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:45.560
<v Nancy Magarill>Do you find that your students are finding different ways of doing it, that you're like, oh my god, I never thought of that?
00:34:45.560 --> 00:34:46.600
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, I love that.
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:47.860
<v Bill Bowers>I look for that actually.
00:34:47.860 --> 00:34:55.880
<v Bill Bowers>I feel like, and I think because you're a writer as too, is I feel like what I provide is a vocabulary.
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:59.880
<v Bill Bowers>I teach them a vocabulary and then encourage them to become writers.
00:35:00.340 --> 00:35:04.060
<v Bill Bowers>How you use the ABCs is up to you as an artist.
00:35:04.060 --> 00:35:09.860
<v Bill Bowers>So I love it when people have a different style than mine, because mine is pretty connected to Marcel Marceau.
00:35:09.860 --> 00:35:17.980
<v Bill Bowers>But I love it when people try new things, and I feel like once you learn the vocabulary, if I understand what you want me to see and feel, then it's working.
00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:20.040
<v Bill Bowers>What you're doing is working if you brought me with you.
00:35:20.040 --> 00:35:22.800
<v Bill Bowers>That's important to me, is to help people find their own way.
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:27.960
<v Nancy Magarill>Okay, I think we're gonna probably have to end shortly, because that...
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:28.720
<v Bill Bowers>Is that rain?
00:35:28.720 --> 00:35:28.900
<v Nancy Magarill>That is.
00:35:28.900 --> 00:35:31.480
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's like teeming, horrible rain right now.
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:35.560
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, and it's gonna hit us in about five, 10 minutes probably.
00:35:35.560 --> 00:35:37.660
<v Nancy Magarill>I can't wait to see you perform.
00:35:37.660 --> 00:35:38.280
<v Nancy Magarill>I've never seen you.
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:38.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>What is next?
00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:40.200
<v Peter Michael Marino>What are you gonna do next?
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:41.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, you've done everything.
00:35:41.900 --> 00:35:44.360
<v Bill Bowers>Well, I just was running a show in New York.
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:46.140
<v Bill Bowers>I just, it just finished this week.
00:35:46.140 --> 00:35:46.440
<v Bill Bowers>And then I...
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:47.680
<v Peter Michael Marino>It goes without saying.
00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:48.060
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah.
00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:48.580
<v Bill Bowers>And I'm taking it...
00:35:48.580 --> 00:35:49.700
<v Peter Michael Marino>That's the name of the show.
00:35:49.700 --> 00:35:52.120
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, so I'm taking it to LA next week.
00:35:52.120 --> 00:35:54.720
<v Bill Bowers>So I'm doing it in LA for a week at some different venues.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you just booked it yourself or?
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:57.480
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.
00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.160
<v Bill Bowers>And then I got invited to Dublin.
00:35:59.160 --> 00:36:01.860
<v Bill Bowers>So I'm taking it to Dublin to a festival in May.
00:36:01.860 --> 00:36:04.800
<v Bill Bowers>And I'm taking it to Singapore and some other places.
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:05.960
<v Bill Bowers>So I didn't intend...
00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:07.200
<v Bill Bowers>This is an older show.
00:36:07.200 --> 00:36:11.440
<v Bill Bowers>I didn't really intend to do it again, but it just kind of came alive again.
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.060
<v Bill Bowers>So I'm just riding the wave.
00:36:15.180 --> 00:36:17.980
<v Peter Michael Marino>Is there a manager taking 15% of what you make?
00:36:17.980 --> 00:36:18.480
<v Bill Bowers>No.
00:36:19.700 --> 00:36:24.400
<v Bill Bowers>If there is a manager out there that would like to work with a mime, but I just...
00:36:24.500 --> 00:36:25.440
<v Peter Michael Marino>An actor.
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:26.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're an actor.
00:36:26.580 --> 00:36:28.820
<v Bill Bowers>I've never found the right connection that way.
00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:30.180
<v Bill Bowers>So I just do it myself.
00:36:30.180 --> 00:36:36.960
<v Nancy Magarill>But it sounds like you don't need to for what you're doing and you're able to navigate it all and get what you need.
00:36:37.660 --> 00:36:40.140
<v Nancy Magarill>Is it a lot of work that you don't want to be doing?
00:36:40.140 --> 00:36:42.960
<v Bill Bowers>It's a lot of work that I have learned how to do.
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:47.680
<v Bill Bowers>And Peter Michael Marino, I have to say, is one of the people that's helped me learn how to do this.
00:36:47.680 --> 00:36:51.580
<v Bill Bowers>Like the reason I went to the Edinburgh Festival was Peter Michael's encouragement.
00:36:51.580 --> 00:36:57.040
<v Bill Bowers>And I think he's a really great example of someone who learns how to self produce and move things forward.
00:36:57.040 --> 00:36:58.960
<v Bill Bowers>So I try to do that too.
00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:04.840
<v Bill Bowers>And it's hard, but it's, you know, otherwise you're waiting around for someone to pick up, pick up the idea.
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:06.520
<v Bill Bowers>So I just try to keep moving it forward.
00:37:06.640 --> 00:37:10.740
<v Bill Bowers>And I keep hoping someone will step in and say, I'll take you from here.
00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:14.600
<v Peter Michael Marino>I want you and Ben Modell to work together.
00:37:14.600 --> 00:37:15.460
<v Bill Bowers>Oh, I love Ben.
00:37:15.460 --> 00:37:16.620
<v Nancy Magarill>That would be really interesting.
00:37:16.620 --> 00:37:17.880
<v Bill Bowers>Oh, you know Ben?
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:19.260
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, yeah, he was on the podcast.
00:37:19.260 --> 00:37:20.420
<v Nancy Magarill>Maybe that's, yeah.
00:37:20.420 --> 00:37:22.140
<v Bill Bowers>Yeah, we've talked about doing some things together.
00:37:22.140 --> 00:37:25.540
<v Bill Bowers>I'd love, I want to do a silent film with Ben and film it.
00:37:25.540 --> 00:37:26.900
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, that would be really cool.
00:37:26.900 --> 00:37:28.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:28.020 --> 00:37:29.040
<v Peter Michael Marino>Do that, do that.
00:37:29.040 --> 00:37:31.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>And get Mark Lonergan to direct it.
00:37:31.120 --> 00:37:33.060
<v Bill Bowers>Exactly, actually I would love that.
00:37:33.060 --> 00:37:34.540
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're welcome.
00:37:34.540 --> 00:37:35.540
<v Peter Michael Marino>Hey, thanks for checking us out.
00:37:35.680 --> 00:37:38.440
<v Peter Michael Marino>Links to today's guests can be found in the show notes.
00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:43.420
<v Nancy Magarill>Don't forget to subscribe, like us, rate us, and tell all your friends about Arts and Craft.
