Jennifer Munson - Technical Director and Mastering Engineer

Jen Munson is an audio mastering whiz and engineer with a sharp ear for sound. She’s a jazz vocalist and also a technical director for WNYC’s “On the Media.” On this episode you’ll hear about sound frequencies, how to make voices distinct, and a bit wood chopping thrown into “the mix”! WNYC

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Jennifer Munson is the technical director for On the Media and a Mastering Engineer at Taloowa.

Jen has engineered some of the greatest musical talents in history. Isaac Stern, for instance. Also Prince, Judy Garland, Jessye Norman, Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, Glenn Gould, Busta Rhymes, Lou Reed and Kathleen Battle.

And also Brooke and Micah.

"They're very much like Springsteen," she says, "only without backup vocals."

In addition to WNYC, Jen has worked for Sony Classical, Gateway Mastering and ABC News. Her first love, however, is singing. Trained at Indiana University, she is an accomplished jazz vocalist and composer of such tender love songs as "Lucy."

Lucy was her dog.

When not  recording, mixing and mastering "On the Media,"  or other acts, Jen is most likely found in her garden.

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Produced and Edited by Arts and Craft.
Theme Music: Sound Gallery by Dmitry Taras.

Transcript

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<v Jennifer Munson>Mastering is really about finding that attachment, you know, like, sort of the pulling you in.

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<v Jennifer Munson>That's what I'm going for, is finding, finding that sound, you know, where you're really, you know, like, it just gets you.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>She's an audio mastering whiz and an engineer with a sharp ear for sound.

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<v Nancy Magarill>A jazz vocalist and also a technical director for WNYC's On the Media.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Jennifer Munson joins us on today's episode.

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<v Nancy Magarill>My name is Nancy Magarill.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I'm a singer, songwriter, composer, performer, graphic and web designer.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And I'm Peter Michael Marino, and I'm a writer, producer, creator, performer, and educator.

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<v Nancy Magarill>We are New York based artists you may or may not have heard of.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And we are here to introduce you to other artists you may or may not have heard of.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Jen Munson, what the heck is mastering?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Help me out here.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Help you out?

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<v Jennifer Munson>Oh, mastering is when I get my mitts on things and I run it through fabulous equipment.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And by things, you mean audio things.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Audio, yeah.

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<v Jennifer Munson>When I get my mitts on mixed tracks, and it's the final stage before releasing a song.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Is it like color correction on a film?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>You're kind of cleaning up, you're cleaning up all of the tracks.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Is that what, really, or is it more, is it past the color correction?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Because I feel like color correction is more like mixing and EQing a little bit, but maybe this is advanced.

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<v Jennifer Munson>But it is maybe, or like I would say, if each scene in a film, you're pulling all of those together to make it into a movie, if you're doing an entire album, or you're setting this in a space, you know, that's going to sound equivalent to everything else that's randomly coming up when you're streaming or on the radio, or, you know, so you're just, you're getting things to that comparable level, but there's so much more to it.

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<v Jennifer Munson>It's, you know, like for me, I tend to approach it like finding what I love about, what I love about the track, what I love about the song and the performance, and pulling out like the very best of everything.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And so, you do that with-

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Pulling out meaning you're kind of bumping up or-

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<v Jennifer Munson>So you're EQing, you're compressing, you're limiting, and I do this all in the analog realm, cause I find that that adds like a color and a depth and-

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<v Nancy Magarill>And when you say you do it all in the analog realm, what does that mean?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Cause people probably all the time send you digital tracks.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So you're talking about, you throw it all on to analog tape, or what does that mean?

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<v Jennifer Munson>No, but I convert it to analog from that digital track.

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<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, we have a tape machine if you happen to mix the tape, but very few people do that anymore.

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<v Jennifer Munson>They did when I started, but not anymore.

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<v Nancy Magarill>God, it was wild recording on to tape and mixing on tape.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah, and editing on tape.

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<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, I started out in classical music.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And so, you know, those crazy crossfades you make, well, we did that with scissors where you would go in and you would like hold the tape, you'd match up the tape between your fingers.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh my God.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And it wasn't just like a chopping block, you know, like this is where you want to be if, or maybe that worked.

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<v Jennifer Munson>But, you know, for like a long crossfade, I've heard stories, and I didn't do that, of people doing multi-track tapes and like a whole, you know, like two foot long, you line them up together and then splice it together to do some of those crazy effects.

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<v Nancy Magarill>It's pretty amazing when you think about it, like I never ever think about that when I'm recording, cause I work in Pro Tools, and I've, I edit so fast now, cause I've been doing it for so long.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I don't even think about what that really is.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And that really is, in essence, is splicing tape and putting it together.

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<v Nancy Magarill>That's pretty, yeah.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And I'm doing it with multi-tracks as well.

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<v Nancy Magarill>It's a, wow, it's so crazy to think how far we've come.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And yet, you know, how far we have to go or how far we're falling, but that's a whole other conversation.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>So you were talking about doing it specifically for music.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>At WNYC, it's also music stuff?

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<v Jennifer Munson>I started out on a show called Soundcheck with John Schaeffer when I started there.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And I was filling in for somebody who was in Japan with his wife and she was teaching.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And then when her contract got extended, I was like, oh my God, I'm going to have this amazing gig.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And then the other engineers were like, oh, hold on.

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<v Jennifer Munson>No way.

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<v Jennifer Munson>You are the new person here.

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<v Jennifer Munson>It was fine for six months, but we call dibs on this.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And then I was bouncing around just for a little bit.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And then I got picked up by On the Media.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And I was their engineer until for about four years.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And then I took over as technical director.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, I didn't know you were a technical director.

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<v Nancy Magarill>What does that mean?

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<v Jennifer Munson>I...

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<v Peter Michael Marino>No more cutting tape.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Just get more.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Well, yeah, the cutting of tape did go away.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Quite some time ago.

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<v Jennifer Munson>It was definite.

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<v Jennifer Munson>No, like when I first started, we were still on tape.

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<v Nancy Magarill>When did you first start?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Okay, well that was kind of quite some time ago.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, in the early aughts.

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<v Jennifer Munson>In the early aughts.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I was using it as a metaphor that you were no longer, quote unquote, cutting tape.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>You were now telling people to cut tape, but you're saying, no, you still had to cut some tape in the metaphorical sense.

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<v Jennifer Munson>In the metaphorical sense, yes.

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<v Jennifer Munson>But no, when I started on On the Media and even with Soundcheck, we were using Pro Tools.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And you still use Pro Tools, don't you?

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<v Jennifer Munson>And we still use, we have not moved beyond that.

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<v Jennifer Munson>I was working with Judy Sherman in like 99 in 2000.

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<v Jennifer Munson>She's a classical producer, incredible, amazing classical producer.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And she was using what came before Pro Tools, what, DigiDesign?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh yeah, I used DigiDesign.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Yes!

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<v Jennifer Munson>So that's where I started.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And before that, I was using mastering program called Sonic Solutions.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I have a friend who still uses DigiDesign.

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<v Jennifer Munson>It was just, you know, it's classic.

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<v Jennifer Munson>It was a good program, not the easiest to work your way around.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Pro Tools is really pretty amazing.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Pro Tools, what happened with Pro Tools, Pete, is that they, and listener, is that they came out with a very user-friendly system for people like me at the time who had never recorded.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I had a friend, I was moving to Paris and I had all these ADATs, which are old tape machines and all of this stuff.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And he said, get rid of it all, get a laptop, and you're going to get this M-box, is what it was called, and you're going to record everything by yourself.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And I'm like, really?

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<v Nancy Magarill>It was Russ Irwin, actually, who we had on the show.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Former guest?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And I did, I listened to him, and I was able to record in Paris, and that's how I learned how to do all of this, was because Pro Tools did that.

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<v Nancy Magarill>It was really smart of them, because they've got all different level kinds of packages, I guess, for all different kinds of people to produce, and it's pretty brilliant.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So go ahead, Jen, I'm sorry to interrupt you.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Oh, so I was using Sonic Solutions.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I've never even heard of that, by the way.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah, it was sort of like a little niche editing software, and I was using that.

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<v Jennifer Munson>My first job out of college was Sony Classical, which merged with Sony Music.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>57th Street?

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<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah, it used to be on, or 56th.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, 56th, yeah, right.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Of course.

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<v Jennifer Munson>56th and 6th.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, it's a great place.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Overlooking the park.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Oh my God.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, I thought it was on 10th.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I thought that was on-

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<v Jennifer Munson>Oh, but that's Sony Music.

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<v Jennifer Munson>So Sony Classical was, yeah, 56th and 6th, and I did my internship for a tiny little classical company called New York Digital.

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<v Jennifer Munson>I was all set to have a job there after I graduated college, and they went out of business in that last little bit.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And the studio manager, Pestard, her sister was the assistant studio manager at Sony Classical, and she just hounded them until they interviewed me.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And that's how I got my amazing first opportunity.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And you went to school specifically for audio engineering?

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<v Jennifer Munson>And vocal performance.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, that's nice.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Which one was your major?

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<v Jennifer Munson>So at the time, it was an associate's degree in audio.

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<v Jennifer Munson>So I went to Indiana, and it was when I was making my audition tape for the schools I wasn't going to audition in person for.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And that was when I first set foot in the studio.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh my gosh.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Oh my god, this is amazing.

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<v Jennifer Munson>This is so incredible.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And I just asked the engineer a gazillion questions until finally he was like, you have to go on the other side and do your part and let me do my part in here.

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<v Jennifer Munson>You go in front of the microphone.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And you're like, but, but, but, but, but, but.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>What does this do?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>What does this do?

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<v Jennifer Munson>And that led me into the audio program at the university.

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<v Nancy Magarill>It's so much fun, right?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Getting behind the board and finding all those things.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I love technology, honestly.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Like, I love coming as a designer, as a musician, all of it.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I love playing around.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I can only imagine, because I feel like you're on a whole higher level, because you're hearing things that most people can't hear.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So you're not only learning all the knobs and all the bells and whistles, you on top of it, sort of are hearing the frequencies, I think, that most of us can't hear.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And that's why you're able to master things, right?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Am I right?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>What is that?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>What does that mean?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Explain that to Pete and the listeners.

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<v Jennifer Munson>And I don't know that it's necessarily that people can't hear them.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Maybe they can't recognize them.

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<v Jennifer Munson>I feel like I've trained up a lot of engineers under me, and I feel like I sort of ruin them for everything because I show them all the things that annoy me, and a lot of it is the sibilance.

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<v Jennifer Munson>So if I'm super essay, Nat, you have to fix that.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, I'm going to have to fix it.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Oh, I am?

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<v Nancy Magarill>You're not sibilant.

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<v Nancy Magarill>No.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I don't find you to be sibilant at all.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I did voiceovers for 10,000 years.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I've never heard of this phrase, sibilant.

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<v Nancy Magarill>You've never heard sibilant?

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<v Nancy Magarill>It's when the s is s.

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<v Jennifer Munson>So sibilance is, and sometimes people have this whistle that comes through with their s's that drives me insane.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I was also like how people kind of also, I think it's people from Texas, they have like a whistle, like a quail.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I went to the water.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I mean, it could be, but that's not what sibilance is.

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<v Jennifer Munson>Sometimes it's like a dental something, and it's on the sh and the, and sometimes like J's are, can be sibilant and G's and I hear plosives on B's and ch.

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<v Jennifer Munson>So it's anything that sort of, for me, so much of it is how it hits your ear, or just pulling you outside of the experience, whether it's talking, whether it's music.

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<v Jennifer Munson>For me, and it's a distraction.

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<v Jennifer Munson>So I'll hear edits in mixes that people send me, and I'm like, are you sure?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Are you sure you got that fade?

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<v Nancy Magarill>You're not bothered by this?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>So interesting.

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<v Jennifer Munson>It'll be that cut sort of in the middle of something.

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<v Jennifer Munson>It's not fully resolved.

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<v Jennifer Munson>You won't hear the full ring out before something else comes in.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Well, it's funny, Pete, and I'll tell you, Pete, I remember a couple, maybe four or five episodes ago, I was having an issue with one of the people I had to edit.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I can't remember who it was, and I sent you the rough of it before, and you caught it.

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<v Nancy Magarill>You were like, you know what?

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<v Nancy Magarill>There's something about this where I'm hearing things.

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<v Nancy Magarill>It feels like it was edited.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And I went back edit by edit, and Pete had subconsciously, because you had no idea that was what you were really hearing.

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<v Nancy Magarill>That's not sibilance, but that's one of the things Jen can hear without even thinking about it.

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<v Nancy Magarill>In fact, when we first started this, before we were putting our episodes on, we were having some sound issues.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And I actually sent Jen a whole episode that I had mixed because I was having problems figuring out how to get the sound right for that particular piece.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And I can't remember who it was.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And Jen was able to help me hear the things that I needed to listen for.

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<v Nancy Magarill>She heard.

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<v Nancy Magarill>This is pretty amazing, actually.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So we have our intro.

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<v Nancy Magarill>We have our, what we do, Jen, as you know, because you listen to the episodes, we do the quick intro of the piece from the artist that we like.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Then I have the music that we use plus our intro.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Then we have the episode.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Sometimes we'll put people's music in that's already been mastered.

00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.520
<v Nancy Magarill>And then we'll have the outro stuff.

00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:41.340
<v Nancy Magarill>Jen could hear exactly what had been mastered and what hadn't, and she actually guided me through putting everything into one folder, going out through one bus, one stereo bus, versus anything that already had been mastered.

00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:46.700
<v Nancy Magarill>And it was really interesting, because I couldn't hear that until Jen pointed me to that.

00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:47.720
<v Peter Michael Marino>Thank you, Fer.

00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:48.560
<v Peter Michael Marino>Thank you.

00:13:48.560 --> 00:13:50.080
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, it was really cool.

00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:55.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>This reminds me of something I learned in, like, I was editing, or I was watching someone edit something once.

00:13:55.800 --> 00:14:02.200
<v Peter Michael Marino>It was like a person talking, and they chose this very specific spot, and I said, why is it right there?

00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>They said, because you never want it when they blink.

00:14:04.780 --> 00:14:09.060
<v Peter Michael Marino>You never want it right before or right after, or right after they blink.

00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:13.460
<v Peter Michael Marino>Like, is that, is it a similar, like you start learning these little thingies?

00:14:13.460 --> 00:14:14.160
<v Jennifer Munson>Exactly.

00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:15.000
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:21.600
<v Peter Michael Marino>Even though my issue, sometimes with Nancy, is I'll go, yeah, but we've taken out their personality.

00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.080
<v Peter Michael Marino>You know, that person does have an S sound, or that person does a lot.

00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:26.360
<v Nancy Magarill>Why never take that out?

00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:27.340
<v Nancy Magarill>Well, the ums, I take, the ums and us.

00:14:27.340 --> 00:14:28.680
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, that's always something I'm concerned.

00:14:28.680 --> 00:14:31.960
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, the ums and us, I think, is a big part of someone's personality.

00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.820
<v Peter Michael Marino>So, and sometimes, but Jen, what's your opinion on that?

00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:37.840
<v Peter Michael Marino>Because I guess you have to also deal with that.

00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:47.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>Does anyone ever say, you know, does anyone ever, you know, write back and go, you made me sound like I talk faster than I do, or, you know, or slower, maybe.

00:14:47.520 --> 00:14:49.920
<v Jennifer Munson>We get huge compliments.

00:14:49.920 --> 00:15:06.120
<v Jennifer Munson>Like, but that, that really comes from, so for my radio show, the, the interviews are 45 minutes to an hour long, and then they're cut down for radio so that they end up 10 to 15 minutes.

00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.660
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you're part of that process also choosing what parts.

00:15:09.660 --> 00:15:11.260
<v Jennifer Munson>No, I am not the chooser.

00:15:11.260 --> 00:15:12.580
<v Jennifer Munson>I am the make it.

00:15:12.580 --> 00:15:16.740
<v Jennifer Munson>I am after hundreds, sometimes thousands of edits.

00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:19.400
<v Jennifer Munson>I make that sound like a real conversation.

00:15:19.520 --> 00:15:24.020
<v Jennifer Munson>So I am the crafter, the massager, much like your title.

00:15:24.020 --> 00:15:25.300
<v Jennifer Munson>I'm the massager.

00:15:25.300 --> 00:15:36.540
<v Jennifer Munson>I, all my children's theater comes in, and, you know, like I'll say phrases out loud to, you know, to find kind of the pacing for something sometimes.

00:15:36.540 --> 00:15:41.420
<v Jennifer Munson>And I pay a lot of attention to how people are breathing.

00:15:41.420 --> 00:15:51.580
<v Jennifer Munson>And, but like you're trying, we have a radio show that has to be, you know, 50 minutes total with everything, and it has to be to time.

00:15:51.580 --> 00:15:57.600
<v Jennifer Munson>Podcasts are so amazing because there's that wiggle room, and you can, it's...

00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.920
<v Nancy Magarill>Doesn't have to be exact.

00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:06.920
<v Nancy Magarill>But I do think, and I am doing that with one I'm editing right now, keeping, and this person has a very distinct personality.

00:16:06.920 --> 00:16:14.580
<v Nancy Magarill>So keeping that, and there's a lot of, like, and I was thinking about our conversation with Daniel Spector about Mark Rylance when I was doing this.

00:16:14.760 --> 00:16:28.360
<v Nancy Magarill>This person, if I were to create a character like them, they are so distinct in the way they speak and the way that they, their, not their ums, but the way they bring out.

00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:29.480
<v Peter Michael Marino>You can hear them thinking.

00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:30.540
<v Nancy Magarill>You can hear them thinking.

00:16:30.540 --> 00:16:37.680
<v Nancy Magarill>So keeping that in without the big breaths and the ums, still keeps their personality.

00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:46.040
<v Nancy Magarill>So deciding, especially because the thing about a podcast is you don't want them, you don't want the listener to just be catching on to the ums and uhs.

00:16:46.040 --> 00:16:47.480
<v Nancy Magarill>And it's the same thing with the radio.

00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.260
<v Nancy Magarill>You need to keep it moving because people are listening.

00:16:50.260 --> 00:16:51.260
<v Nancy Magarill>They're not watching.

00:16:51.260 --> 00:16:56.280
<v Nancy Magarill>It's very different when you're watching and you're able to see what's going on in their face when they're doing that.

00:16:56.280 --> 00:16:57.960
<v Nancy Magarill>But I was thinking about it as an actor.

00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:09.280
<v Nancy Magarill>I was like, wow, that's a great way to approach a role is to hear all of these things that people do and use that in your vocal, in your vocal approach to a character too, if you're going to do that.

00:17:16.582 --> 00:17:23.242
<v Nancy Magarill>I wonder how the change from analog to digital to everything being on ear buds.

00:17:23.242 --> 00:17:35.802
<v Nancy Magarill>Like I just got Bluetooth ear buds because I finally got sick of having a little, I like the cables better in my ears, but that changes the sound and people are now mixing for different formats.

00:17:35.802 --> 00:17:40.462
<v Nancy Magarill>They're mixing television, movies, all that is now for the small screen versus a big screen.

00:17:40.462 --> 00:17:45.922
<v Nancy Magarill>It's sort of the same thing, I think, with for audio that you have to do different kinds of mixes, right?

00:17:46.262 --> 00:17:50.222
<v Nancy Magarill>And is that in mastering, that you do different masters for different versions?

00:17:51.422 --> 00:18:01.142
<v Jennifer Munson>I sort of feel like if I can get it to sound really good, I do have these, I'm not wearing them now, but the Sony 75-06.

00:18:01.142 --> 00:18:03.402
<v Nancy Magarill>It's kind of like what I have.

00:18:03.402 --> 00:18:03.942
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:18:03.942 --> 00:18:06.262
<v Jennifer Munson>So that has been my secret weapon.

00:18:06.262 --> 00:18:21.082
<v Jennifer Munson>I feel like if I can stand to listen to it on those headphones, it's going to handle the MP3 compression, it's going to handle ear buds, it's going to handle coming out of your phone speaker sitting on your counter.

00:18:21.082 --> 00:18:22.762
<v Nancy Magarill>And why do you think that is?

00:18:22.762 --> 00:18:35.522
<v Nancy Magarill>Why do you think that is that one set of cans can do that versus, like one of the things I do is when I'm recording podcasts, I use these because they're closed and so we don't get any weird feedback.

00:18:35.522 --> 00:18:39.722
<v Nancy Magarill>When I'm listening and mixing, it's a whole other set of headphones.

00:18:39.922 --> 00:18:40.622
<v Nancy Magarill>Why is that?

00:18:41.042 --> 00:18:45.042
<v Jennifer Munson>I listen a few different ways to every single thing.

00:18:45.042 --> 00:18:52.042
<v Jennifer Munson>So I feel like the Sonys are really good because they're close in and they show you all the super annoying things.

00:18:52.042 --> 00:18:55.522
<v Jennifer Munson>I can't balance music well in headphones.

00:18:55.522 --> 00:19:00.022
<v Jennifer Munson>I like to hear that on speakers with the voice and I listen at different levels.

00:19:00.022 --> 00:19:05.762
<v Nancy Magarill>You told me when I'm mixing to mix very, put it very low to make sure everybody's sort of on the same level.

00:19:05.802 --> 00:19:13.062
<v Jennifer Munson>Exactly, so that your level is not too low, which I have to say is a continuous gripe I have.

00:19:13.062 --> 00:19:14.822
<v Jennifer Munson>Oh, am I?

00:19:14.822 --> 00:19:19.482
<v Jennifer Munson>You're just like any singer who's okay in the final mix.

00:19:19.482 --> 00:19:21.842
<v Jennifer Munson>I want a vocal up version, Nancy Magarill.

00:19:21.842 --> 00:19:25.122
<v Nancy Magarill>So you want a vocal up of Nancy Magarill, but not anybody else.

00:19:25.122 --> 00:19:27.482
<v Nancy Magarill>You're saying, I'm under everybody.

00:19:27.542 --> 00:19:28.882
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, interesting.

00:19:28.882 --> 00:19:35.302
<v Jennifer Munson>Oh, so that's very common from singers who do the mixing or give the final, okay.

00:19:35.302 --> 00:19:37.962
<v Jennifer Munson>They just, they tuck themselves back too much.

00:19:37.962 --> 00:19:40.522
<v Nancy Magarill>Pete, you've never noticed that when you listen?

00:19:40.522 --> 00:19:49.402
<v Peter Michael Marino>I always think you sound soft when we're doing it here, but it always sounds balanced when I listen, when you send me one before you make it live.

00:19:49.402 --> 00:19:51.842
<v Peter Michael Marino>I always listen to a part of it on my phone.

00:19:51.842 --> 00:19:54.982
<v Peter Michael Marino>And then the next is I do it through my headphones.

00:19:54.982 --> 00:19:57.002
<v Peter Michael Marino>And then the next is I just put it on my stereo.

00:19:57.342 --> 00:19:58.862
<v Nancy Magarill>See, I never listen on the stereo.

00:19:58.862 --> 00:20:05.942
<v Nancy Magarill>I always listen, I mix in the headphones, and then I take it on my earbuds when I'm walking, out walking to listen.

00:20:05.942 --> 00:20:07.222
<v Nancy Magarill>And that's all I do.

00:20:07.222 --> 00:20:12.862
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, this makes sense, though, that Jen is testing it in every different possible platform.

00:20:12.862 --> 00:20:13.902
<v Nancy Magarill>In the car.

00:20:13.902 --> 00:20:14.342
<v Peter Michael Marino>In the car.

00:20:14.342 --> 00:20:17.182
<v Nancy Magarill>Well, that's not something we New Yorkers are gonna do.

00:20:17.182 --> 00:20:20.322
<v Jennifer Munson>I know, but the advantage.

00:20:20.362 --> 00:20:21.762
<v Peter Michael Marino>Podcasts are...

00:20:21.762 --> 00:20:24.202
<v Jennifer Munson>For broadcast and for that sort of thing.

00:20:24.202 --> 00:20:48.102
<v Jennifer Munson>So my frequency that I bump up in vocals that you could probably just give yourself like a little bump is probably like 24K, maybe 1A, but somewhere around there to just, it's that cut through, like my host of, Brooke Gladstone, the host of my radio show, she has this magnificent frequency voice that cuts through anything.

00:20:48.102 --> 00:20:54.362
<v Jennifer Munson>Like I constantly hear that the music's too loud under her, but you can just always hear her.

00:20:54.362 --> 00:20:58.102
<v Jennifer Munson>It's so nice and easy because you don't lose her.

00:20:58.102 --> 00:20:59.382
<v Nancy Magarill>That's interesting.

00:20:59.382 --> 00:21:04.082
<v Nancy Magarill>Now, do you think that certain voices cut through better than others?

00:21:04.082 --> 00:21:05.462
<v Nancy Magarill>Or do you think it's just the way that they're-

00:21:05.462 --> 00:21:06.042
<v Jennifer Munson>Certain frequencies.

00:21:06.042 --> 00:21:06.522
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:21:07.082 --> 00:21:21.082
<v Jennifer Munson>It's certain frequencies and I'm sure from a singer standpoint, it's that focused triangle residency that really gets, and how it's mic'd and everything else.

00:21:21.082 --> 00:21:30.682
<v Nancy Magarill>Well, it's funny because I approach this very different or I thought I did, very differently to how I approach singing with a mic and hearing.

00:21:30.982 --> 00:21:36.422
<v Nancy Magarill>I hear myself very differently when I listen to my tracks as a singer than I do on this.

00:21:37.962 --> 00:21:46.542
<v Nancy Magarill>I don't even really pay attention to what my voice sounds like when I'm mixing, unless there's just something weird in the recording that I noticed that something happened.

00:21:46.542 --> 00:21:57.182
<v Nancy Magarill>For example, on the last episode we did, I forgot to turn off my VPN, and I think that that probably affect, you have to turn off the VPN for Riverside FM.

00:21:57.822 --> 00:21:59.642
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, that's one of the things they say.

00:22:00.282 --> 00:22:05.242
<v Nancy Magarill>I'm curious to go and listen to it to hear if there's a frequency difference, but those are the things I listen to.

00:22:05.482 --> 00:22:10.462
<v Nancy Magarill>I don't listen to my voice speaking the same way when I'm speaking than I do when I'm singing.

00:22:10.462 --> 00:22:16.742
<v Nancy Magarill>I'm much more critical when I'm singing and really attentive to things than I am when I'm doing this.

00:22:16.742 --> 00:22:29.762
<v Jennifer Munson>Well, your voice on this podcast is, it's low and rich, and it is very different from your other, there's, it's just, I mean, I like them both, but they are very, very different.

00:22:30.622 --> 00:22:36.502
<v Peter Michael Marino>I have two male, two male gay friends of a certain age who talk about horror movies on their podcast.

00:22:36.662 --> 00:22:40.322
<v Peter Michael Marino>And these guys not only look alike, but sound alike.

00:22:40.322 --> 00:22:41.122
<v Nancy Magarill>You can't tell who's who.

00:22:41.122 --> 00:22:45.322
<v Peter Michael Marino>And it took them a couple of episodes to realize it just put one in one and one in the other.

00:22:45.322 --> 00:22:48.962
<v Peter Michael Marino>Then you always know he's always on the right, he's always on the left.

00:22:48.962 --> 00:22:55.222
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's, it's interesting, it's interesting, but it's annoying when you're only wearing one earbud, for example.

00:22:55.282 --> 00:22:56.642
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, yes.

00:22:56.642 --> 00:22:57.342
<v Peter Michael Marino>Things like that.

00:22:57.342 --> 00:23:00.102
<v Peter Michael Marino>But I thought that was a pretty clever fix.

00:23:00.102 --> 00:23:09.362
<v Jennifer Munson>So I have a friend, she's the host of Radio Lab now, Lulu Miller, and she had a podcast called Invisibilia.

00:23:09.362 --> 00:23:17.862
<v Jennifer Munson>And my comment to her, hearing one of her first episodes is, are they using the same type of microphone?

00:23:17.862 --> 00:23:22.782
<v Jennifer Munson>And she says, oh, not only the same type, we're using the same mic at the same time.

00:23:22.782 --> 00:23:23.842
<v Jennifer Munson>I'm like, not helpful.

00:23:24.002 --> 00:23:29.102
<v Jennifer Munson>I have known you for years and I cannot differentiate between the two of you.

00:23:29.102 --> 00:23:39.382
<v Jennifer Munson>Like find a different mic for each one, find different frequencies so that one occupies one sphere and one occupies the other.

00:23:39.382 --> 00:23:45.142
<v Jennifer Munson>But yeah, if you go back and you listen to early episodes of Invisibilia, I dare you to tell them apart.

00:23:45.502 --> 00:23:47.042
<v Jennifer Munson>I really struggled with it.

00:23:47.042 --> 00:23:52.702
<v Jennifer Munson>Or maybe I found it more frustrating because I knew her and I wanted to know who was saying what.

00:23:53.262 --> 00:23:54.762
<v Jennifer Munson>And maybe some people just don't care.

00:23:54.762 --> 00:24:05.502
<v Nancy Magarill>So now when people are recording anything, let's say they're doing music records, they're doing podcasts, they're doing voiceovers, how much does the mic make a difference?

00:24:07.602 --> 00:24:11.322
<v Nancy Magarill>Is that something you work on at all or you really just post?

00:24:11.822 --> 00:24:18.742
<v Jennifer Munson>So there was a comment on Reddit about Micah, Micah Lowinger is the co-host of my radio show.

00:24:18.742 --> 00:24:23.022
<v Jennifer Munson>And there was a comment on Reddit about how his microphone sounds.

00:24:23.022 --> 00:24:31.122
<v Jennifer Munson>And he uses a Shure Shotgun, Sennheiser, sorry, Sennheiser Shotgun microphone.

00:24:31.122 --> 00:24:43.982
<v Jennifer Munson>And it's not really designed for holding right up to you and talking, but it does a great job of canceling out the rest of your room noise, having it not sound echo-y.

00:24:43.982 --> 00:24:47.902
<v Jennifer Munson>See, I have you in a nice treated room while I'm doing my podcast.

00:24:47.902 --> 00:24:50.102
<v Peter Michael Marino>Padded walls, just in case.

00:24:51.322 --> 00:24:52.942
<v Jennifer Munson>All studios have padded walls.

00:24:52.942 --> 00:24:55.382
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, I meant just in case you go crazy.

00:24:55.382 --> 00:24:56.062
<v Jennifer Munson>Oh, yes, yes.

00:24:56.362 --> 00:24:57.702
<v Jennifer Munson>That's exactly why.

00:24:57.702 --> 00:25:00.442
<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, we think it's for sound absorption, but really.

00:25:00.442 --> 00:25:03.122
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's actually, I cannot get this level correct.

00:25:03.122 --> 00:25:05.582
<v Peter Michael Marino>And I bash my head into the wall, but luckily it's padded.

00:25:05.582 --> 00:25:07.002
<v Jennifer Munson>Exactly.

00:25:07.002 --> 00:25:08.382
<v Jennifer Munson>Luckily it's padded.

00:25:09.842 --> 00:25:18.062
<v Jennifer Munson>But it has like a distortion because it's a hypercardioid and it just overloads sometimes.

00:25:18.062 --> 00:25:26.742
<v Jennifer Munson>And I feel like that distortion is almost like, you know, like the tape compression on drums.

00:25:26.742 --> 00:25:31.502
<v Jennifer Munson>You know how digital drums sound so different than the analog drums.

00:25:31.502 --> 00:25:32.242
<v Jennifer Munson>Nancy knows.

00:25:32.242 --> 00:25:32.462
<v Jennifer Munson>Okay.

00:25:32.462 --> 00:25:35.302
<v Jennifer Munson>So Nancy, you know, Peter's shaking his head.

00:25:35.302 --> 00:25:36.762
<v Jennifer Munson>No.

00:25:36.762 --> 00:25:39.142
<v Jennifer Munson>No, I have no idea what you're talking about.

00:25:39.142 --> 00:25:42.582
<v Jennifer Munson>But there's, it's just tape saturation.

00:25:42.582 --> 00:25:50.302
<v Jennifer Munson>You know, like you can hit things hard enough and it gives it its own personality and its own sound.

00:25:50.302 --> 00:25:55.922
<v Jennifer Munson>And so microphones really do make a difference in proximity.

00:25:55.922 --> 00:25:59.222
<v Jennifer Munson>How close you are to the mic matters a great deal.

00:25:59.302 --> 00:26:07.502
<v Jennifer Munson>And I remember when I was recording and it's funny, I was just like, yes, just like, oh, show, I can't even see your mic, Peter.

00:26:07.502 --> 00:26:10.462
<v Nancy Magarill>I'm, you don't have to show it.

00:26:10.462 --> 00:26:11.462
<v Nancy Magarill>She just saw the mic.

00:26:11.462 --> 00:26:12.162
<v Peter Michael Marino>Just to zoom.

00:26:12.162 --> 00:26:13.742
<v Peter Michael Marino>I hope that's okay.

00:26:13.742 --> 00:26:15.602
<v Nancy Magarill>It's funny because I listened to Smart List.

00:26:15.602 --> 00:26:19.922
<v Nancy Magarill>I love that show and Will Arnett was just talking about how he uses an ointment.

00:26:19.922 --> 00:26:32.702
<v Nancy Magarill>And I remember my last record, I borrowed an ointment to do my vocals and I had to do them at three o'clock in the morning because I had a neighbor upstairs who I think they were killing people, dragging dead bodies around all day long.

00:26:32.702 --> 00:26:38.082
<v Nancy Magarill>So I couldn't record, so I would wake up, I would get up in the middle of the night and I'd record.

00:26:38.082 --> 00:26:41.862
<v Nancy Magarill>But that mic was so like picked up everything.

00:26:41.862 --> 00:26:47.342
<v Nancy Magarill>And it just wasn't a great mic for me at the time because I'm so breathy.

00:26:47.342 --> 00:27:01.302
<v Nancy Magarill>And the way that I guess my vocal recording technique, it just, I don't think it was the right mic for me, whereas this SM7 for me is just better for my voice and the timbre of my voice, I think.

00:27:01.302 --> 00:27:02.342
<v Nancy Magarill>What are you hearing, Pete?

00:27:02.342 --> 00:27:04.302
<v Nancy Magarill>Are you hearing the highway noise that I'm hearing?

00:27:04.302 --> 00:27:05.282
<v Peter Michael Marino>Like a stream.

00:27:05.282 --> 00:27:06.522
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, there's a noise.

00:27:06.522 --> 00:27:07.082
<v Nancy Magarill>But the beautiful thing.

00:27:07.082 --> 00:27:09.262
<v Peter Michael Marino>And I thought it was coming from my laptop, but it's not.

00:27:09.262 --> 00:27:13.842
<v Nancy Magarill>No, there's a, we've had this where we, can you hear that, Jen, where you hear like a highway?

00:27:13.842 --> 00:27:16.802
<v Jennifer Munson>It's possible you can hear my highway.

00:27:17.562 --> 00:27:22.302
<v Nancy Magarill>So I grew up, I actually lived next to a highway, but I can take it out in post.

00:27:22.322 --> 00:27:27.762
<v Nancy Magarill>That's the thing I've learned to do is that's what's great with RX tools.

00:27:27.762 --> 00:27:32.502
<v Peter Michael Marino>I just wanted to make sure it wasn't the fan in my computer because that's not supposed to happen if it's 2025.

00:27:32.502 --> 00:27:33.262
<v Nancy Magarill>Right.

00:27:33.562 --> 00:27:35.722
<v Peter Michael Marino>You have a fan thing, Jen?

00:27:35.722 --> 00:27:38.482
<v Jennifer Munson>I have a fan thing in my computer as well.

00:27:38.482 --> 00:27:41.002
<v Jennifer Munson>So that's what I, it might be that.

00:27:41.002 --> 00:27:43.262
<v Jennifer Munson>I can mute me real quick.

00:27:43.382 --> 00:27:44.702
<v Nancy Magarill>No, no, no, it's fine.

00:27:44.702 --> 00:27:45.322
<v Nancy Magarill>It doesn't matter.

00:27:45.322 --> 00:27:47.802
<v Nancy Magarill>We've already recorded the whole, almost the whole.

00:27:47.802 --> 00:27:49.582
<v Peter Michael Marino>It all comes out in the post wash.

00:27:49.582 --> 00:27:50.442
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, right.

00:27:50.442 --> 00:27:51.702
<v Nancy Magarill>You've taught me so well.

00:27:52.902 --> 00:28:03.142
<v Nancy Magarill>That's the one thing is that, you know, there are things that, listener, there are things that you can use, you can do all sorts of stuff in recording and all sorts of accidents can happen.

00:28:03.142 --> 00:28:12.482
<v Nancy Magarill>And then someone brilliant like Jen, can you, you can have your mixing person that can do certain things and help fix things in the mix and put things in the right place.

00:28:12.482 --> 00:28:15.002
<v Nancy Magarill>And then a person who masters takes it to that.

00:28:15.002 --> 00:28:17.042
<v Nancy Magarill>It's like the icing on the cake, right?

00:28:17.882 --> 00:28:22.202
<v Nancy Magarill>But it also makes the cake edible for lots more people.

00:28:23.122 --> 00:28:27.602
<v Nancy Magarill>I think that's the thing is what I've learned is there's different ways to master.

00:28:27.602 --> 00:28:33.762
<v Nancy Magarill>So it's usable in all different ways, because otherwise it's not going to be at a certain level.

00:28:33.762 --> 00:28:37.622
<v Nancy Magarill>You know, you need it to be able to be heard.

00:28:37.622 --> 00:28:46.722
<v Nancy Magarill>And mastering helps bring everything up to a level where you can hear it across different mediums, right?

00:28:47.802 --> 00:28:56.122
<v Jennifer Munson>And for me, mastering is really about finding that attachment, you know, like sort of the pulling you in.

00:28:56.122 --> 00:29:05.702
<v Jennifer Munson>That's what I'm going for is finding that sound, you know, where you're really, you know, like, it just gets you.

00:29:05.702 --> 00:29:12.082
<v Jennifer Munson>And so you're going after that performance, you're finding the thing that you love about it.

00:29:12.082 --> 00:29:13.202
<v Jennifer Munson>You take that vocal.

00:29:13.422 --> 00:29:20.602
<v Jennifer Munson>You know, that's why you'll need vocal up mixes from people because it needs to sit, you know, right in that right spot.

00:29:20.602 --> 00:29:22.142
<v Peter Michael Marino>So fascinating.

00:29:22.142 --> 00:29:30.842
<v Jennifer Munson>You know, so that, you know, you're getting that story, you're getting, you know, like the essence of what's supposed to be conveyed to you.

00:29:30.842 --> 00:29:47.662
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're like, you know, you know in the movie, the main event with Barbara Streisand and Ryan O'Neill, you don't, but in that movie, in that movie, she is, she, she, she smells things.

00:29:47.662 --> 00:29:49.282
<v Peter Michael Marino>She's a perfume person.

00:29:49.282 --> 00:29:53.122
<v Peter Michael Marino>Like she's able to, there's like a thing, it's called something, right?

00:29:53.122 --> 00:29:53.862
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's like a job.

00:29:53.862 --> 00:29:54.442
<v Peter Michael Marino>People have it.

00:29:54.442 --> 00:29:56.082
<v Peter Michael Marino>They smell.

00:29:56.082 --> 00:29:57.222
<v Nancy Magarill>It's like a taste tester.

00:29:57.542 --> 00:29:59.042
<v Peter Michael Marino>Why the hell was I thinking about that?

00:29:59.042 --> 00:30:00.042
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh yeah, right.

00:30:00.042 --> 00:30:06.762
<v Peter Michael Marino>That she just knows, oh, this has the notes are just too, too much, you know, there's too much amber in that or whatever.

00:30:07.642 --> 00:30:11.282
<v Peter Michael Marino>You kind of have that for sound and people's voices.

00:30:11.282 --> 00:30:13.142
<v Peter Michael Marino>That's such an interesting skill.

00:30:13.142 --> 00:30:14.682
<v Nancy Magarill>That's a really great way to put it.

00:30:14.682 --> 00:30:15.642
<v Peter Michael Marino>Thank you.

00:30:15.642 --> 00:30:21.362
<v Peter Michael Marino>When you were a kid, were you, I mean, when I was a kid, I was like a tape recorder.

00:30:21.362 --> 00:30:24.582
<v Peter Michael Marino>This is the best thing since sliced bread.

00:30:24.582 --> 00:30:25.222
<v Peter Michael Marino>Were you like that?

00:30:25.222 --> 00:30:27.082
<v Jennifer Munson>I had the one from Radio Shack.

00:30:27.082 --> 00:30:28.602
<v Jennifer Munson>I had the Radio Shack one.

00:30:28.602 --> 00:30:29.762
<v Jennifer Munson>I made all these programs.

00:30:29.762 --> 00:30:31.502
<v Peter Michael Marino>Was that the round one?

00:30:31.502 --> 00:30:32.242
<v Peter Michael Marino>That was the phone.

00:30:32.242 --> 00:30:33.182
<v Peter Michael Marino>I think the phone was round.

00:30:33.182 --> 00:30:35.002
<v Jennifer Munson>No, this was the cassette.

00:30:36.422 --> 00:30:44.922
<v Jennifer Munson>The black and silver and it had the orange record button with the play where you hit them both at the same time.

00:30:44.922 --> 00:30:45.242
<v Jennifer Munson>Yes.

00:30:45.522 --> 00:30:49.882
<v Jennifer Munson>I recorded things off the radio, off the television.

00:30:49.882 --> 00:30:52.562
<v Jennifer Munson>We would do our own little game shows.

00:30:53.242 --> 00:30:58.622
<v Peter Michael Marino>You never thought this is going to be my career, right?

00:30:58.622 --> 00:30:59.322
<v Jennifer Munson>No, no.

00:31:00.342 --> 00:31:01.802
<v Jennifer Munson>I was going to be Queen of the Night.

00:31:02.822 --> 00:31:03.242
<v Jennifer Munson>That was my-

00:31:03.242 --> 00:31:04.742
<v Peter Michael Marino>What does that mean exactly?

00:31:04.742 --> 00:31:06.502
<v Peter Michael Marino>Is that like a gay bar thing?

00:31:06.502 --> 00:31:07.302
<v Peter Michael Marino>What's happening?

00:31:07.702 --> 00:31:08.862
<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah.

00:31:08.862 --> 00:31:14.802
<v Jennifer Munson>In the Magic Flute, I just like as a kid, I had this coloratura.

00:31:14.902 --> 00:31:16.062
<v Jennifer Munson>Wow.

00:31:16.062 --> 00:31:19.022
<v Jennifer Munson>I could just step out of bed and hit the high notes.

00:31:19.822 --> 00:31:23.642
<v Jennifer Munson>What I wanted to be, no, was the dramatic.

00:31:25.202 --> 00:31:33.882
<v Jennifer Munson>Who I listened to and who I loved was Ella and Jesse Norman, and the low-

00:31:33.882 --> 00:31:34.642
<v Nancy Magarill>Rich.

00:31:34.702 --> 00:31:36.742
<v Jennifer Munson>Rich, dramatic.

00:31:38.102 --> 00:31:39.482
<v Jennifer Munson>That's who I wanted to be.

00:31:39.662 --> 00:31:41.882
<v Peter Michael Marino>And now you make people sound like that.

00:31:41.882 --> 00:31:45.382
<v Jennifer Munson>And now, yeah, I go for that dramatic, rich.

00:31:45.382 --> 00:31:47.002
<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah, it did come full circle.

00:31:47.002 --> 00:31:47.702
<v Jennifer Munson>I hadn't thought of that.

00:31:47.702 --> 00:31:50.662
<v Nancy Magarill>Is that why you stopped singing and you went into audio?

00:31:50.842 --> 00:31:52.102
<v Nancy Magarill>Is that-

00:31:52.102 --> 00:31:52.722
<v Nancy Magarill>or did-

00:31:52.722 --> 00:31:54.502
<v Nancy Magarill>what was the reason you stopped singing?

00:31:54.502 --> 00:32:00.842
<v Nancy Magarill>If you had a college career like that, I mean, I can't imagine stopping to use that voice.

00:32:00.862 --> 00:32:02.282
<v Jennifer Munson>I-

00:32:02.282 --> 00:32:06.122
<v Jennifer Munson>when I was 14, my-

00:32:06.122 --> 00:32:08.382
<v Jennifer Munson>I had a voice teacher who came out of-

00:32:08.382 --> 00:32:12.502
<v Jennifer Munson>who heard me sing and came out of retirement to teach me.

00:32:12.502 --> 00:32:19.342
<v Jennifer Munson>And he just kind of took over my life because before that, I was interested in jazz and, you know, everything else.

00:32:19.462 --> 00:32:22.602
<v Jennifer Munson>And I didn't want to be Queen of the Night.

00:32:22.602 --> 00:32:29.002
<v Jennifer Munson>And he worked with me all through high school and all through college.

00:32:29.002 --> 00:32:34.902
<v Jennifer Munson>And as I was getting ready to graduate, I had done my internship in New York and I loved it.

00:32:34.902 --> 00:32:39.082
<v Jennifer Munson>So I'd applied to Manhattan and Manus and Juilliard.

00:32:39.082 --> 00:32:40.782
<v Jennifer Munson>And then I had some-

00:32:40.782 --> 00:32:46.102
<v Jennifer Munson>I had the Peabody Institute and Illinois and Indiana for backups.

00:32:46.102 --> 00:32:51.462
<v Jennifer Munson>And I had done my auditions and I really wanted to be in New York so that I could combine them.

00:32:51.462 --> 00:32:55.562
<v Jennifer Munson>And I came back from auditioning and he sat me down.

00:32:55.562 --> 00:33:04.062
<v Jennifer Munson>And he said, you know, it's not really a one in a million voice, maybe not one in 10,000.

00:33:04.062 --> 00:33:10.502
<v Jennifer Munson>And I know you and I think you're really, really good at engineering.

00:33:10.502 --> 00:33:16.742
<v Jennifer Munson>And I know your personality and I don't think you're cut out for this life and how hard it's going to be.

00:33:17.982 --> 00:33:19.882
<v Jennifer Munson>And I don't think you should sing.

00:33:19.882 --> 00:33:30.842
<v Jennifer Munson>And I withdrew all my applications to graduate school and I packed up my car and my mom was screaming at me.

00:33:30.842 --> 00:33:34.182
<v Jennifer Munson>She's like, the least you can do is get a master's.

00:33:34.182 --> 00:33:37.942
<v Jennifer Munson>And I was screaming back, I'm like, you could do less than that.

00:33:37.942 --> 00:33:39.202
<v Jennifer Munson>And I drove off to New York.

00:33:39.202 --> 00:33:48.562
<v Nancy Magarill>And did you feel like that was, did you feel a relief when he said that to you or did you just feel like, like what was it that made you agree with him and not?

00:33:48.562 --> 00:33:51.102
<v Nancy Magarill>I would have been, I would have been like, fuck you.

00:33:51.102 --> 00:33:52.562
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yes, you would have, Nancy.

00:33:52.562 --> 00:33:53.382
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yes, you would have.

00:33:53.382 --> 00:33:57.022
<v Jennifer Munson>I was devastated.

00:33:57.022 --> 00:33:57.482
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:33:57.482 --> 00:34:02.162
<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, this, I turned my whole life around for this person.

00:34:02.162 --> 00:34:07.622
<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, I spent years, almost a decade working with him.

00:34:07.622 --> 00:34:12.602
<v Jennifer Munson>And but he also dictated everything that I could do.

00:34:12.742 --> 00:34:15.962
<v Jennifer Munson>Like you can't, you have to stop studying with the jazz.

00:34:15.962 --> 00:34:18.342
<v Jennifer Munson>You have to, you know, like, you can't pursue this.

00:34:18.342 --> 00:34:19.402
<v Jennifer Munson>You must do this.

00:34:19.402 --> 00:34:20.322
<v Jennifer Munson>You have to have this.

00:34:20.322 --> 00:34:23.342
<v Jennifer Munson>And, you know, like I played by all the rules.

00:34:23.342 --> 00:34:25.122
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, it's not how it works.

00:34:25.122 --> 00:34:31.702
<v Jennifer Munson>I was, I was devastated that he would put me through all that if he didn't really believe in me.

00:34:31.702 --> 00:34:32.642
<v Peter Michael Marino>Wow.

00:34:32.642 --> 00:34:34.502
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, that's like a strange gift.

00:34:34.502 --> 00:34:37.342
<v Jennifer Munson>But now I never spoke to him again.

00:34:37.582 --> 00:34:38.622
<v Jennifer Munson>I just couldn't.

00:34:38.622 --> 00:34:38.962
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:34:38.962 --> 00:34:40.282
<v Jennifer Munson>It, it just broke me.

00:34:40.282 --> 00:34:41.042
<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah.

00:34:41.042 --> 00:34:42.322
<v Nancy Magarill>That's just so crazy.

00:34:42.422 --> 00:34:44.082
<v Nancy Magarill>It's a little odd, but that's a whole lot.

00:34:44.242 --> 00:35:01.522
<v Nancy Magarill>That's not, that's actually a conversation that would be fun to have at some point about how, how people can change your course when you're, the things that people say and do that affect us as artists, that make us change our direction.

00:35:01.522 --> 00:35:22.442
<v Nancy Magarill>Now, I ultimately think, look, we're all the masters of our own destiny, to the most part, when it comes to what we're doing artistically, you either listen or you don't to what somebody says, you know, that's your choice, but I do think that there are a lot of people that wield a lot of influence on our careers that sometimes we may or may not, we should or should not listen to.

00:35:22.442 --> 00:35:24.782
<v Nancy Magarill>I'll tell you a quick story, a little side note.

00:35:24.782 --> 00:35:35.942
<v Nancy Magarill>When I went to college, I went to a theater conservatory, I had no theater training when I was a kid, but I knew I wanted to do music, dance, theater, all of it, because I loved it, it was what I wanted to do.

00:35:35.942 --> 00:36:00.642
<v Nancy Magarill>But I was a horrible actress, and I remembered that head of acting at the time, it was a very brutal theater conservatory, after two years, you went through cuts, created a whole dynamic that was crazy, but that first semester was the first I'd ever done any acting training, and she sat me down and she said, so I just want to say that you're a really horrible actress.

00:36:00.642 --> 00:36:09.942
<v Nancy Magarill>And I looked at her, and I think there was a little part of her that thought she would get to me in some way, and I just looked at her and I said, I know, that's why I'm here.

00:36:09.942 --> 00:36:15.702
<v Nancy Magarill>So that was the lesson I learned, is like people are gonna say all sorts of stuff to you, but it depends on what you want.

00:36:15.702 --> 00:36:20.182
<v Nancy Magarill>You just kind of have to plow ahead if somebody, if that's what you want.

00:36:20.182 --> 00:36:22.362
<v Nancy Magarill>But it sounds to me like you're in the right place.

00:36:22.362 --> 00:36:24.062
<v Nancy Magarill>Like I feel like you're doing the right thing.

00:36:24.262 --> 00:36:28.222
<v Jennifer Munson>I think he was absolutely, absolutely right.

00:36:28.222 --> 00:36:39.662
<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, having worked with these opera singers and knowing what their life is like and that constant audition, it's brutal.

00:36:39.662 --> 00:36:40.782
<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, you're a nomad.

00:36:40.782 --> 00:36:42.002
<v Jennifer Munson>It's so hard.

00:36:42.002 --> 00:36:44.362
<v Nancy Magarill>You really have to be cut out to take it.

00:36:44.702 --> 00:36:46.802
<v Nancy Magarill>I have a little mix of both, I think.

00:36:46.802 --> 00:36:53.962
<v Nancy Magarill>I think, Pete, you're probably out of the three of us, the most tenacious, the most, you're like, you just go for it.

00:36:53.962 --> 00:36:56.042
<v Nancy Magarill>You're not gonna let anything stop you.

00:36:56.042 --> 00:36:57.682
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, I have been, yes.

00:36:57.682 --> 00:37:03.162
<v Peter Michael Marino>But you know, I had an acting teacher in college who kept encouraging me to take a playwriting class.

00:37:03.562 --> 00:37:06.622
<v Peter Michael Marino>And I was like, I am, that is not what I do.

00:37:06.622 --> 00:37:07.482
<v Peter Michael Marino>I do not write.

00:37:07.482 --> 00:37:08.382
<v Peter Michael Marino>I am a performer.

00:37:08.382 --> 00:37:09.502
<v Peter Michael Marino>I take other people's words.

00:37:09.502 --> 00:37:11.702
<v Nancy Magarill>Which is funny, because you kind of do.

00:37:11.702 --> 00:37:13.722
<v Peter Michael Marino>And he was, he was totally right.

00:37:13.722 --> 00:37:23.282
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, if I would have taken that class, then I would have been, Tom Fontana would have been my tutor and he wrote, you know, everything, right?

00:37:23.282 --> 00:37:30.122
<v Peter Michael Marino>And he was very connected with the school and we're still friends, but I mean, he would have been my mentor and I would have been writing for television.

00:37:30.242 --> 00:37:31.302
<v Peter Michael Marino>100% sure.

00:37:31.302 --> 00:37:40.162
<v Peter Michael Marino>But I want to ask you, Jen, how much of, I think what you're doing is you're contributing to storytelling.

00:37:40.162 --> 00:37:41.182
<v Nancy Magarill>Absolutely.

00:37:41.182 --> 00:37:41.682
<v Peter Michael Marino>Right?

00:37:41.842 --> 00:37:50.162
<v Peter Michael Marino>And I imagine that there are people who do not, cannot see that that is what you do because you are a technician, right?

00:37:50.162 --> 00:38:01.122
<v Peter Michael Marino>We're thinking in terms of like buttons and levels and frequencies, we don't, regular people, don't put that together with like the art of storytelling.

00:38:01.122 --> 00:38:06.222
<v Peter Michael Marino>Well, you're on working for a company that sends out stories, right?

00:38:06.222 --> 00:38:08.262
<v Peter Michael Marino>People are listening to these stories.

00:38:08.922 --> 00:38:10.882
<v Peter Michael Marino>How does, yeah, I mean, I see you smiling.

00:38:10.882 --> 00:38:11.862
<v Peter Michael Marino>How does that work?

00:38:11.862 --> 00:38:16.802
<v Peter Michael Marino>What is the, you know, how much of the storytelling do you get to sort of control?

00:38:16.802 --> 00:38:19.122
<v Jennifer Munson>So, you know, sometimes I'm doing feedback.

00:38:19.122 --> 00:38:22.722
<v Jennifer Munson>I, On the Media isn't the only thing that I do.

00:38:23.362 --> 00:38:40.522
<v Jennifer Munson>And, you know, I get to work with reporters and give them, you know, coaching as they're, as they're telling their story, reporting their pieces and, you know, and giving feedback about what I'm understanding and what I don't understand and what could be made clearer or also-

00:38:40.522 --> 00:38:41.522
<v Nancy Magarill>Is that producing?

00:38:41.522 --> 00:38:42.062
<v Jennifer Munson>Phrasing.

00:38:42.062 --> 00:38:43.662
<v Peter Michael Marino>Phrasing.

00:38:43.662 --> 00:38:44.722
<v Jennifer Munson>Phrasing.

00:38:44.722 --> 00:38:47.762
<v Jennifer Munson>Phrasing is a big, big thing for me.

00:38:47.762 --> 00:38:56.422
<v Jennifer Munson>You know, just how information is absorbed and pausing at the right time so that you can take in what was just said.

00:38:56.422 --> 00:39:10.362
<v Jennifer Munson>So like, for instance, I almost always have a big breath before the, there's a transition, you know, to the host, just so that, you know, like the person can usually, you're not like cutting people off to do the next thing.

00:39:10.602 --> 00:39:15.302
<v Jennifer Munson>You're, there's a resolution, you, you know, you come to a conclusion and you move on.

00:39:15.302 --> 00:39:17.322
<v Jennifer Munson>So I work with them on transitions.

00:39:17.322 --> 00:39:21.682
<v Jennifer Munson>I also get to talk to them about when they're collecting sound.

00:39:21.682 --> 00:39:30.182
<v Jennifer Munson>I'm big on, you know, like, Okay, so, so my reporters go out and they're interviewing people.

00:39:30.182 --> 00:39:32.602
<v Jennifer Munson>And I'm like, but I need room tone.

00:39:32.602 --> 00:39:35.802
<v Jennifer Munson>Or if you walk into a building, I, you know, so you have to imagine.

00:39:35.802 --> 00:39:37.502
<v Peter Michael Marino>Lobby sound and things like that.

00:39:37.502 --> 00:39:57.862
<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah, the lobby sound, but also the transitions, you know, like I would like to hear you walking, you know, like, or, you know, the subway going by, if you step outside or, you know, like, the diner sounds, if you happen to walk into a place like that, or, you know, like, and so, that's a whole other side of mixing that I get.

00:39:58.042 --> 00:40:07.882
<v Jennifer Munson>I have this amazing life where I get to do that and work with our local reporters and tell the local stories and do that.

00:40:07.882 --> 00:40:10.322
<v Nancy Magarill>And then work on records with artists.

00:40:10.382 --> 00:40:13.222
<v Jennifer Munson>Yes, and then, yeah, that collaborates.

00:40:13.222 --> 00:40:15.822
<v Jennifer Munson>It's, I love the collaboration part.

00:40:15.822 --> 00:40:27.962
<v Jennifer Munson>I love the give and take and working with people and seeing them get excited about things and, you know, knowing when I push something too far or, you know, like giving that grace.

00:40:28.422 --> 00:40:33.422
<v Jennifer Munson>I don't like the just living in a bubble thing and doing things.

00:40:33.422 --> 00:40:45.702
<v Nancy Magarill>So let's talk quickly because over the last probably five or so minutes, we've had your husband, who's also a brilliant artist, chopping wood outside and we have that on the track.

00:40:46.362 --> 00:40:48.822
<v Nancy Magarill>We're going to hear wood chopping.

00:40:48.822 --> 00:41:00.222
<v Nancy Magarill>So talk about sort of like talking about room tone and all the stuff and what you can get rid of and what you can't and maybe how you would attack that sound when you're in the post-process.

00:41:00.222 --> 00:41:21.362
<v Jennifer Munson>So if the wood chopping is integral to the story, then what you're going to want is just some clean wood chops and you're going to bring that in and you're going to have it peak up during some certain pauses because it's that give and take in composition, which you don't always get anymore because sometimes it's just all on.

00:41:21.362 --> 00:41:37.122
<v Jennifer Munson>I mean, one of the things that's amazing about Nancy's pieces is that it is this journey and there's the give and take and certain things are brought up at certain times and they get to showcase and then they go away.

00:41:37.262 --> 00:41:58.262
<v Jennifer Munson>But sometimes I'm working on pieces and it's just, this is everything all at once and it stays at that level and you can find things that you like, but it's so much easier to have moments versus everything all at once the whole time.

00:41:58.262 --> 00:41:59.342
<v Peter Michael Marino>Now I can really hear the child.

00:41:59.382 --> 00:42:04.762
<v Peter Michael Marino>I mean, Nancy, this is a high pressure, this is a big-

00:42:04.762 --> 00:42:05.562
<v Nancy Magarill>I know, right?

00:42:05.562 --> 00:42:06.702
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, nope.

00:42:06.702 --> 00:42:18.882
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, this is a lot of pressure here because you're gonna have to roll this thing out and then Jen's gonna have to listen to it on her phone, on the car, on the shower speaker.

00:42:21.162 --> 00:42:28.402
<v Peter Michael Marino>You sound great everywhere except for on the $3 under five, five below lava lamp speaker I got.

00:42:28.502 --> 00:42:30.882
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, thank you, Jen.

00:42:30.882 --> 00:42:32.282
<v Peter Michael Marino>This is fascinating.

00:42:32.282 --> 00:42:40.602
<v Peter Michael Marino>I love this and I love that you, I mean, coming into this, not knowing anything about mastering and now I know still a lot.

00:42:40.602 --> 00:42:41.822
<v Peter Michael Marino>No, I do know a lot.

00:42:41.822 --> 00:42:51.382
<v Peter Michael Marino>But what I love is that I never would have thought that what you did was collaborative and I'm so happy to hear that it is because it seems that that brings you so much joy.

00:42:51.382 --> 00:42:52.422
<v Peter Michael Marino>That is the joy of it.

00:42:52.422 --> 00:42:54.222
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's not the control.

00:42:54.222 --> 00:42:59.562
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's not the using your amazing ability to hear different frequencies.

00:42:59.562 --> 00:43:02.722
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's that you get to collaborate with other people to tell a story.

00:43:02.722 --> 00:43:04.722
<v Peter Michael Marino>I think that's freaking great.

00:43:04.722 --> 00:43:09.862
<v Jennifer Munson>Yeah, just to get the best possible performance that people get attached to.

00:43:09.862 --> 00:43:12.482
<v Peter Michael Marino>And every day is a different, every day is another day.

00:43:12.482 --> 00:43:14.102
<v Peter Michael Marino>You just, here's a new story.

00:43:14.162 --> 00:43:14.882
<v Peter Michael Marino>Here's a new story.

00:43:14.882 --> 00:43:15.542
<v Jennifer Munson>It's all so different.

00:43:15.542 --> 00:43:16.222
<v Peter Michael Marino>So great.

00:43:16.222 --> 00:43:16.862
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's great.

00:43:16.862 --> 00:43:17.542
<v Peter Michael Marino>Congratulations.

00:43:17.542 --> 00:43:18.122
<v Nancy Magarill>Very cool.

00:43:19.242 --> 00:43:20.322
<v Peter Michael Marino>Hey, thanks for checking us out.

00:43:20.322 --> 00:43:23.122
<v Peter Michael Marino>Links to today's guests can be found in the show notes.

00:43:23.122 --> 00:43:28.102
<v Nancy Magarill>Don't forget to subscribe, like us, rate us, and tell all your friends about Arts and Craft.