Debbie Taylor-Kerman - artist, painter

Debbie Taylor-Kerman is a contemporary mixed media artist and painter who put aside her successful commercial design career to focus on creating abstract figurative art that empowers diversity and humanity. Her engaging art is now in private collections throughout the United States and around the world. On this episode we explore the world of licensing graphic art, transitioning from corporate to personal art, and following your voice.  www.debbietaylorkerman.com

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Debbie Taylor-Kerman is a Scottish artist who came to New York City to work as a textile designer in 1991. She fell in love with the city and her husband Elliott, and they moved to Harlem where they raised their two sons and still reside. She studied her Foundation Course at St Martins School of Art in London, received her BA in Printed Textiles from Liverpool School of art and pursued further fine art studies with the Creative Visionary Program for 4 consecutive years, led by artist Nicholas Wilton. During the pandemic, Debbie finally decided to paint fine art full time, and left her successful commercial art career of more than three decades. Since then Debbie has exhibited primarily in the New York area and she is represented by Globe Fine Art in Santa Fe, NM and Dean Street Fine Art in Tampa. Her work can be found in private collections throughout the United States and around the world. 

Artist Statement 

I need to find hope in this fragile and divided world by creating the beauty of diversity. I believe it's critical for everyone to feel seen and to feel hope that we can coexist in peace. I create abstract figurative art by using a multitude of tools to build a substantial history of abstract paint and collage, from where my figures can emerge. While adjusting the measure of abstract versus figurative, I'm constantly asking myself the question, what needs to be said and what needs to be left unsaid. I don't want to tell the whole story. Creating a dynamic composition for initial impact is key to capturing viewers’ attention, by first making them stop and look, then enticing them to stay and discover the subtlety within the paintings. Just like life, there is more to us than what initially meets the eye. My art conveys how our diversity is what makes us beautiful, that we are all connected regardless of our differences, and that we need to spend time discovering the “whole picture”. 

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Produced and Edited by Arts and Craft.
Theme Music: Sound Gallery by Dmitry Taras.

Transcript

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Before, it was much more outward, looking outward to see what the trends were to see.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Whereas now, as an artist, as a fine artist, it's much more inward, how am I feeling, what's important to me, what brings me joy, what am I troubled by, and what do I want to express?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it's very different, and I've had to work very hard not to go with that old mechanism.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>She is an artist and painter who put aside a successful commercial art career to focus on works that empower diversity and humanity.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Her art is now in private collections throughout the United States and around the world.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Debbie Taylor-Kerman gets arty with us on today's episode.

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<v Nancy Magarill>My name is Nancy Magarill.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I'm a singer, songwriter, composer, performer, graphic and web designer.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And I'm Peter Michael Marino, and I'm a writer, producer, creator, performer and educator.

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<v Nancy Magarill>We are New York based artists you may or may not have heard of.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And we are here to introduce you to other artists you may or may not have heard of.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Hi, Debbie Taylor-Kerman.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Melinda Buckley had posted about your show in Harlem.

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<v Nancy Magarill>And I was so taken by your work, by the textures, the subject matter.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I couldn't wait to talk to you about it.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So I want to thank you so much for coming on.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Thank you for inviting me.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I'm really glad to be here.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Thank you.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Where are you from?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I'm from Scotland.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I was born in Glasgow, moved to the suburbs of Glasgow, and then went to college in London, and now have lived in New York 34 years, and lived in Harlem 19 years.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I've actually now lived in Harlem just as long as I lived in Scotland.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, wow.

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<v Nancy Magarill>That's very cool.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Wow.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Do you like it up in Harlem?

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<v Nancy Magarill>I love Harlem.

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<v Nancy Magarill>I do.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I fell in love with it as soon as I came up here.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Where are you?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I'm right in central Harlem, so, you know, sort of around Atlantic Avenue.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, nice.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

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<v Nancy Magarill>It's changing all the time there.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's fascinating.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>In the 19 years that we've been here, it's incredible the changes that have been made.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, some good, some not so good, but mostly, for the most part, good.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>How have you changed in the past 19 years?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oh, oh, Lord, a lot.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I got old, you know, hopefully, matured, you know, raised two boys.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>My boys were young when we first came here.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, my boys went to public school here in Harlem.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I, you know, kind of had a business, and like I was a commercial artist for many years, like really all the time that I lived here.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And it was really during the pandemic that I sort of finally pursued my dream of creating fine art.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>So, what about a commercial artist?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>What is a commercial artist?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, what does that mean?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, you know, first of all, like I came here, I was a textile designer, so that's how I came.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I get asked to come and work in a design studio in the garment district.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I created patterns for fabrics, and that was what I was trained as in art school, or what I specialized in.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Was that, back in the day, that was like you used graph paper and like filled in?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>No, no, I was, my studio, the studio that I belonged to was called London Portfolio, and we did a lot of really creative work.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was mostly British designers that actually worked, and we did very creative work.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then we had a department that was mostly Chinese and Korean artists who actually made our funky designs into repeat patterns for fabrics.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, we did all the more conceptual work, you know.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, and then once I had my first kid, I really didn't want to be working ridiculous hours in the garment district.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, and also I felt that like if I was going to go up the ladder, it would have to be a lot more commercial, but I was much more interested in the actual artwork.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I had started doing things like more illustrative work, and I started then, I went to the, there's a big show called The Surtech Show, and it's coincides with the stationary show where it's at the Javits Center, and they do greeting cards and wrapping paper and all that.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I actually-

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<v Nancy Magarill>I actually went to that one.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oh, really?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, there you go.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I went with my portfolio, and I made lots of connections.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Fortunately, people liked my work, and I started then doing great work for greeting cards, and mostly, mostly just greeting cards at that point.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then, some of the companies that I was working with, instead of giving a flat fee, said, we do a royalty.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then, I realized that this was a business that was kind of untapped at that point.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I began to license my artwork on many different products.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I could do a snowman for a greeting card, and then it could also be licensed on a wrapping paper, on dinnerware, on a Christmas ornament, on a popcorn tin, you know, and it ended up, for me, being a pretty lucrative business for quite a few years.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, you know, it became very competitive towards the end.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And at the beginning, my competitors were my fellow artists, but it actually became more brand names.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, famous people then began branding their name on different products, like in the dinnerware, dinnerware was my biggest kind of client.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But it became people like, you know, big designers like Kate Spade.

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<v Nancy Magarill>Kate Spade, I knew you were gonna say Kate Spade.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, and then also famous people like Kim Kardashian and all that, they all started marketing themselves and branding themselves on different products.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, it became a very difficult place.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was like a small market with lots of sharks trying to get a bit of the pie sort of thing, you know, so.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But it was a great and wonderful period of my life.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was a great thing.

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<v Nancy Magarill>What does it mean to put your stuff on diningware and on that kind of, like, how do you do that?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, I had a licensing deal.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So there's my first licensing deal was a company called Sakura, who then were bought up by a bigger company called Oneida.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And Oneida are one of the biggest companies in the dinnerware market.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So then Oneida would license my artwork and then they would do all of the manufacturing and then they would sell the work to their clients anywhere from Coles Department Store to Target to smaller companies like Dillard's and I would get a royalty.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So if the thing did really well, which I had some patterns that did incredibly well, like I had the best selling dinnerware in Coles, Christmas dinnerware in Coles for eight years.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Wow!

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Is your name on the plate?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, wow!

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<v Nancy Magarill>What does the pattern look like?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's for snowmen.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>I love you just shrugging your shoulders.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's just for snowmen.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, it was a very luxurious thing and it was wonderful and I was really grateful.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had some really great things like I had a whole end cap in Target.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had a Christmas tree in Macy's.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was an incredible experience for me and it was where I was meant to be at that time.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>But did you, did Oneida say we need, bring us like 12 examples of things you might want on a plate and then we'll decide which one we like or did you, was it an assignment or they just went through your catalog and said, we like this?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, I had a portfolio but sometimes they would ask me and say a specific thing like, oh, we need, we're Coles, for example, they chose these three different snowmen and you have to do it in fours because everything's sold in fours.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's either dinner where is eight or 12 or six, so I needed another snowman.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So the guy, it's a guy called Jeff Grinspan, who is a wonderful friend of mine.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>He was actually the art director in Sakura at the time that then became Oneida.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>He said to me, I think these would be great.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Could we maybe add a fourth snowman?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So something like that would happen.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But then once I had a lot of success with Coles after two years, they said, okay, let's build on this.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Can we do pairs of snowmen?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it can work like that.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I also can work that they take it from my portfolio.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oftentimes, they'll take it from the portfolio, but then they'll ask you to expand on it or change the colors or whatever.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>It's so interesting that you, for so many years, as an artist, you had an assignment, right?

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<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, you had an assignment.

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<v Peter Michael Marino>And now you have to give yourself the assignment.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, that's the biggest change.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, really, what you're doing as a commercial artist, you're using your voice to interpret someone else's voice.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And sometimes the other voice wasn't necessarily assignment, but it was a trend.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So the commercial art world is very trend-orientated.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So each season, you can see it, whether it's in fashion, whether it's like, that's how the commercial world works, because they're wanting people to buy things all the time.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So you have to change, they have to develop.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So for me, it was often trend-based.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it can be a color trend, it could be a theme trend, or whatever.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I was very good at that, which is defective character, but it helped me at that time, was that I'm such a people pleaser, so I'm really good at like, you give me an assignment and I'll do it.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So for me, I think the big missing element of not creating fine art was I was too terrified to use my own voice.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had been so accustomed to pleasing people, to meeting the trend, meeting the market.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I think it took me to be in my 50s, to be able to say, okay, I'm ready, I'm ready to use my voice.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I don't, so I don't think about trends.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I don't, like if I'm about to work on a new, like when I was, I have a solo show now at Heath Gallery in New York City in Harlem.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And when I was working towards all of the paintings for that show, if you were working towards something as a creative in the commercial art world, you would look at what your success was and try to build on that success.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Even though the element of it has to be new and inspiring as well.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Whereas when I was working on the solo show for Heath Gallery, it was just purely, what do I need to do?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>What do I want to express?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>What is coming from my heart?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Where is my heart right now?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So there's a lot of inward stuff.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Like before it was much more outward, looking outward to see what the trends were to see.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Whereas now as an artist, as a fine artist, it's much more inward.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>How am I feeling?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>What's important to me?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>What brings me joy?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>What am I troubled by?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And what do I want to express?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it's very different.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I've had to work very hard not to go with that old mechanism.

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<v Nancy Magarill>So when you're thinking of an idea for a show, what are the things other than textures?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Because it seems like, now when I'm thinking about your, it makes so much sense that your textiles, because so much of your pieces actually look like they have textiles, right?

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<v Nancy Magarill>What is it that happens for you that triggers that spark or whatever?

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<v Nancy Magarill>Do you know what that is?

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, right now, it's kind of fine nuances that kind of take me further.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, like, you know, I'd say that the biggest thing that I need to express is just about the beauty of diversity.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I think having lived in New York City for 34 years, where I grew up in Scotland, was very homogenous.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's pretty different now, but at that point, it was just all, like, white people, and the big difference is whether you were a Catholic or a Protestant, you know.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, to me, and I've always been, I come from a very working class family, you know, my parents both grew up in poverty in Glasgow.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, you know, I'm very much about a champion for the underdog, and my thing is about equality, and, you know, but I find that I need to or where I'm at right now is about expressing the beauty of diversity, you know.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>The story of oppression isn't my story to tell.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>That's not my story because I'm a very privileged white woman, you know.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But my story is, as I've lived in New York City, I've experienced being in a very diverse neighborhood where, for the most part, we're living in peace, you know.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I think with the way the country has become, especially since Trump began his venture to where he is now, the message has been about pitting people against each other and having scapegoats.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so that is very much against who I am.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so I think I'm very much driven to express the opposite of that about how beautiful diversity is.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I have been in many different kind of small nuances expressing that through my work from the beginning.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Like the very first kind of collection of work I ever did was about, it was a friend of mine who is a Muslim, black and wears a scarf.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>After Trump got any power, she expressed how terrified she was just on the streets in the subway because she just felt that she was a target, you know.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And she doesn't wear a hijab, it's just a scarf.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so I immediately just wanted to just show the beauty and that we should be respecting people regardless of where they're from, who they choose to worship or.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I did a series of women, and mostly women of color, in scarves in different forms.

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<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so it's always been so.

00:13:42.780 --> 00:13:52.320
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then the next collection I did was, we went into lockdown and my father died of COVID right at the very beginning.

00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:53.740
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Thank you.

00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:57.800
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And he was in Scotland and I was here and I couldn't go home for the funeral.

00:13:57.800 --> 00:13:59.600
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, it was a nightmare.

00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:04.440
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And we were all in lockdown and then I was in a very dark place.

00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:06.260
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I was in a really dark place.

00:14:06.920 --> 00:14:18.360
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I ended up, there's a kind of story to it, because I had done this series of paintings, that first series of paintings, and I still wasn't taking it seriously.

00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:26.300
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I heard my dad's voice when I was lying on my couch, kind of depressed, I heard his voice in my ear saying, put your paintings on the wall, Hen.

00:14:26.300 --> 00:14:27.440
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oh.

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:31.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so I did and I put the paintings on the wall and I began to see the value.

00:14:31.820 --> 00:14:36.760
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then all of a sudden I just got this, because I was going out every night at seven o'clock, banging my pots and pans.

00:14:36.760 --> 00:14:47.360
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I was actually seeing my fellow neighbors get out and going to work in Whole Foods or going to work in the schools and whatever, the hospitals.

00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:56.180
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so I started, I did a series of, it was really mostly people of color that were essential workers, and that was my next collection.

00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:01.140
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So fast forward to the latest collection that I did for this solo show.

00:15:01.140 --> 00:15:19.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>My inspiration came from knowing, as I started it at the beginning of the year, because the show opened in April, and I knew that the first time Trump came into power, I went into a very dark place, and I sort of made a promise to myself that I wasn't going to let him steal my joy.

00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:29.600
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I'll still work like crazy and do everything I can, and march, and resist, but I can't, and then I will also oppose what he does.

00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So my new collection of work was really colorful.

00:15:33.680 --> 00:15:37.880
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I really made a concerted effort to make joyful colors.

00:15:37.880 --> 00:15:39.480
<v Nancy Magarill>Oh, that's nice.

00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:50.460
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And you know, there's a lot of transgender people in my paintings, this recent lot of paintings, and a lot of gender fluidity that you can't even really tell.

00:15:50.460 --> 00:15:52.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Is it, you know, what, you know.

00:15:53.440 --> 00:16:19.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So a lot of things that are current, you know, like there was the things of like anti-drag queens, you know, RuPaul's Drag Race is one of my favorite, most joyful things, you know, it's like, and so I have a lot of drag queens in the paintings too, you know, so, you know, so it's whatever's going on in the moment, but I think the baseline for me is just, for now, the expression of the beauty in our beautiful, diverse world, you know, so.

00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:23.260
<v Peter Michael Marino>Wow, this, I'm so moved by this story.

00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.280
<v Peter Michael Marino>I can't even, what, I don't know anything about the art world.

00:16:27.280 --> 00:16:30.980
<v Peter Michael Marino>What's the, what happens when you have a solo show?

00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:36.240
<v Peter Michael Marino>I'm in the theater world where a solo show is somebody bears their soul and tells you about a horrible experience in their life.

00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:37.680
<v Peter Michael Marino>This is different.

00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:39.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>What, thank God.

00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:44.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>What, what is, you know, what, yeah, what do you, like, what do you hope to get?

00:16:44.900 --> 00:16:50.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>Like, I mean, I'm assuming an artist wants to sell their work.

00:16:50.620 --> 00:16:55.100
<v Nancy Magarill>And then it's like, not for plates, not for blanks, no snowmen, for people to hang on their walls.

00:16:55.100 --> 00:17:00.840
<v Peter Michael Marino>You want to, you want to, you want to mount this show somewhere else and then somewhere else and somewhere else.

00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.140
<v Peter Michael Marino>Like, what, how does it all work?

00:17:03.140 --> 00:17:06.260
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oh, it's a very complicated layered.

00:17:06.260 --> 00:17:07.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I, and I, in all honesty.

00:17:07.580 --> 00:17:09.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>That makes me not feel bad for not knowing how it works.

00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.700
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, I think it depends on the artists and what their objective is.

00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:16.440
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I think every artist has their own thing.

00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:20.260
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, I think there's artists that just don't care about selling anything.

00:17:21.120 --> 00:17:21.660
<v Peter Michael Marino>Oh, yeah.

00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:22.460
<v Peter Michael Marino>Linus is like that.

00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:25.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>There's just pure expression.

00:17:25.080 --> 00:17:29.220
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>There's other people that are churning it out, you know, just to sell.

00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:32.160
<v Peter Michael Marino>Warhol?

00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.640
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, he's questionable.

00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:34.960
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But, you know, it's, yeah.

00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.640
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, he made it cool to be that, you know.

00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:47.240
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But there's, like, people literally, like, that go to these big, what do you call them, like, cruise ships and stuff and sell on cruise ships.

00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:51.160
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And there's that kind of aspect to say commercial, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I just actually found out about that recently.

00:17:53.040 --> 00:17:54.540
<v Nancy Magarill>That's so bizarre.

00:17:54.540 --> 00:17:59.700
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, so, but, and then there's just, you know, you know, it's a very difficult world.

00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:03.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And it's a very, like, most form of art is very hierarchical.

00:18:03.020 --> 00:18:05.600
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Hierarchical is where I, I can't say the word.

00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:06.600
<v Peter Michael Marino>I could not even spell it, so.

00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:13.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's, you know, it's, you know, there's a lot of snobbery in the art world, I think, you know.

00:18:13.820 --> 00:18:18.340
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And that was one of the things that kept me from it because I was working class.

00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:23.680
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I felt that who, who, I've got nothing of important to say and who do I think I am.

00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:29.360
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, and also being from working class, I needed to make money, you know, it's like, you know.

00:18:29.360 --> 00:18:33.860
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it wasn't even a thought that I could do fine art because I think there's that concept.

00:18:33.860 --> 00:18:40.560
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's like jazz singing poetry and fine art, like who the hell makes a living doing those, you know.

00:18:40.560 --> 00:18:42.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, Nancy, who does that?

00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:50.240
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But there are, but there are people that do, you know, and I think, and I think ultimately what you have to do is just follow your heart, you know.

00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.780
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out right now.

00:18:52.780 --> 00:18:55.620
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Like, where do I belong?

00:18:55.620 --> 00:19:01.320
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, you know, it's hard to know, do you belong in this kind of gallery or do you belong in that kind of gallery?

00:19:01.320 --> 00:19:11.620
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Or I've been very fortunate that over the last year, I've had everybody come to me, you know, so I've actually never written to a gallery yet.

00:19:11.660 --> 00:19:16.100
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I work with two different, I'm about to work with a third gallery.

00:19:16.100 --> 00:19:17.600
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So there's different ways to work.

00:19:17.600 --> 00:19:23.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You can work like the gallery, Heath Gallery, like they're not representing me.

00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:28.260
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>They're just showing my work for this period of time.

00:19:28.620 --> 00:19:30.480
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And that'll be it, you know.

00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.080
<v Peter Michael Marino>And do you pay a fee to have your stuff there?

00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:36.180
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, no, I don't pay a fee to have my stuff.

00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:40.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Like there is galleries like that where you can pay them and they'll show your work.

00:19:40.180 --> 00:19:41.800
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I've never done that, you know.

00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:46.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>They just take, most galleries, it's like they take a percentage, you know.

00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:47.160
<v Nancy Magarill>Of the sale.

00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, yeah.

00:19:48.040 --> 00:19:51.360
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Because they're giving you the space and they're bringing their clients in.

00:19:51.540 --> 00:19:58.440
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And you know, they've got the brick and mortar sort of space where they've got people coming in all the time and all that, you know.

00:19:58.440 --> 00:19:59.260
<v Nancy Magarill>And it's new.

00:19:59.260 --> 00:20:02.100
<v Nancy Magarill>We're at real estate, so they have to pay the bills.

00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:03.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yes, exactly, exactly.

00:20:03.820 --> 00:20:07.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So that's this gallery, Heath Gallery is just for this show.

00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:22.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Whereas, I have a gallery in Santa Fe and I have a gallery in Tampa, Florida and I'm going to be working with a gallery in Boston who are going to represent me in that area and I'll be giving them paintings and then they'll be hopefully selling them in that area, you know.

00:20:22.020 --> 00:20:25.180
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So that's another way to do it, you know.

00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:37.500
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Ultimately, I think a lot of people, there's a thing called blue chip galleries that are kind of like the top of the hierarchy, you know, and you know, that's when your work starts to sell for a gazillion dollars, you know.

00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:42.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I have no idea how you get to that level and I, you know, I don't know.

00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:47.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I think I'm where I'm at and I just have to just keep people one foot in front of the other.

00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:49.420
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>That's how I just keep doing it.

00:20:49.420 --> 00:20:59.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>Do you ever sort of go back to your other life and like you're working on something and think, actually, this would look really good on a scarf or I could see this on curtains?

00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:00.160
<v Peter Michael Marino>No.

00:21:00.260 --> 00:21:08.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I actually have, I've had people ask me, like I had a German company approach me and ask if they could put my work on rugs.

00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:10.220
<v Nancy Magarill>Rugs?

00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:10.920
<v Peter Michael Marino>Wow.

00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:12.440
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I've had quite a few things, you know.

00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.440
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But I just, it doesn't interest me.

00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, it's just, you know.

00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.900
<v Nancy Magarill>You don't want to do a snowman rug?

00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:23.200
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Being there, done that.

00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:30.500
<v Peter Michael Marino>I'm realizing now that like I have seen artists work and like just very casually said, oh my God, I would love that on a t-shirt.

00:21:31.300 --> 00:21:37.360
<v Peter Michael Marino>And not realizing that like maybe that's taboo or maybe, you know, maybe it's insulting or?

00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:38.520
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>No, I don't think so.

00:21:38.520 --> 00:21:39.980
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>No, not at all.

00:21:39.980 --> 00:21:43.120
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's just, it's just not where my head is landing right now.

00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:48.920
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, so I think I'm so into what I'm doing that I just don't want to focus away from that.

00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, it is, it's very hard to make a living doing what I'm doing, you know.

00:21:52.040 --> 00:21:57.260
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, you know, most artists tend to teach, you know.

00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:04.140
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And this is a thing that I'm sort of, I get asked to teach a lot and so far I've said no.

00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:08.900
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I'm considering one thing right now, but it's, it's very hard.

00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:10.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>Why do you say no?

00:22:11.760 --> 00:22:22.320
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Because, you know, I think all my life I was, I like what we started with, I was working for other people essentially.

00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:26.520
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then I was a mother and I raised my kids and like they were before me.

00:22:27.040 --> 00:22:33.200
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so then I became an empty nester like five, four years ago and it was just like, woohoo, it's time for Debbie.

00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:34.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, it's Debbie time, you know.

00:22:34.820 --> 00:22:39.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I think teaching is definitely, you know, you have to be given a certain amount.

00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.240
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, but I know that there's a lot that you get in return as well, you know.

00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:47.940
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, but for some reason it's just, I keep saying no.

00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:48.220
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:51.440
<v Nancy Magarill>Well, you're in a space where you're in your artist space right now.

00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:52.760
<v Peter Michael Marino>That's exactly what it sounds like.

00:22:52.760 --> 00:22:59.800
<v Peter Michael Marino>You are in, you are in Debbie land and that's where you're going to stay and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

00:22:59.800 --> 00:23:00.100
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:23:00.260 --> 00:23:03.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you can teach forever, right?

00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:04.740
<v Peter Michael Marino>There's plenty of years left to teach.

00:23:04.760 --> 00:23:05.620
<v Nancy Magarill>Absolutely.

00:23:06.020 --> 00:23:14.360
<v Nancy Magarill>I have a question about the, so about the art world because I know there's the whole gallery circuit and there's all that going on in the different levels of galleries.

00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:25.140
<v Nancy Magarill>What about the art shows that like when you're going, like my sister lives in Sarasota and every time I go, there's a huge art show in Sarasota where everybody's showing their artwork.

00:23:25.760 --> 00:23:27.140
<v Nancy Magarill>Do you do those kinds of things?

00:23:27.140 --> 00:23:28.900
<v Nancy Magarill>Is that even any interest to you?

00:23:28.900 --> 00:23:29.220
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:23:29.220 --> 00:23:38.340
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, the very first time I ever showed my work was like, there's a show called The Other Art Fair, and there's one in Brooklyn.

00:23:38.340 --> 00:23:40.060
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>There's six around the world.

00:23:40.060 --> 00:23:47.740
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I think there's one in Sydney, one in London, Chicago, Brooklyn, Dallas, and LA.

00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:51.340
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>The one in Brooklyn is very competitive and it's a wonderful show.

00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:59.800
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I actually went, so I had started really painting full-time, just to segue into that.

00:23:59.800 --> 00:24:17.000
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>After I painted those essential workers, so this is in 2020, I decided to have courage with sweaty hands, put it up on Instagram, some of the paintings, which I had never shown anyone the paintings.

00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Immediately, people started to want to buy them.

00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:24.540
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>That was like, wow.

00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:33.460
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had put them on my personal page, so then I got a professional artist Instagram page, and I started to do that more.

00:24:33.460 --> 00:24:41.740
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I really seen that I had an audience, that people were really responding to my work, because I had no clue.

00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:43.620
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>At that point, we were all still in lockdown.

00:24:47.380 --> 00:25:02.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, after a couple of years, I knew that I wasn't ready to approach any galleries or anything, so it was sort of the most empowering thing that you can do for yourself is maybe to do one of these art fairs, just to sort of see what it was like in person.

00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:03.480
<v Peter Michael Marino>The temperature of the water, yeah.

00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:04.880
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, exactly.

00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:15.100
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I think it was 2023, I applied to get into the Brooklyn Art Fair, and fortunately, I was very fortunate, because it is hard to get in, and I got in, I got accepted.

00:25:15.100 --> 00:25:17.300
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I think that was May 2023.

00:25:17.300 --> 00:25:26.700
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, this was like the first person, because we were still, because my dad had died of COVID, we were very, and my husband was very worried about it.

00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:32.540
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was really, we were living really in a kind of isolated bubble.

00:25:32.540 --> 00:25:43.780
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, it was the first time I really put myself out there in a very social situation, but it was also the opportunity to see people's reaction to my work in person, because I had never seen that before.

00:25:43.780 --> 00:25:54.140
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I exhibited, it was May of 2023, and I exhibited for the first time at the Elder Art Fair in Brooklyn, and it was an incredible experience.

00:25:54.140 --> 00:25:54.480
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oh, wow.

00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.760
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Absolutely incredible.

00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:58.800
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I actually sold a lot of paintings.

00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:11.160
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I sold 14 paintings, and people loved my work, and it was really, and it was also just engaging with people, and because I'm not a trained fine artist, I mean, I've been an artist all my life.

00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:20.200
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I know about color, I know about design, and I actually took this fine art class that was online for three months and then I did it four years ago.

00:26:21.320 --> 00:26:28.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I have, you know, I had some experience, you know, but I had never actually talked about my work.

00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:31.420
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had never really explained my inspirations.

00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:40.560
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had never really talked about, you know, the subtle nuances that go on in your mind and your heart as an artist and about your process, you know.

00:26:40.560 --> 00:26:42.640
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so that was an incredible experience.

00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:47.000
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So if anyone's starting out, I would absolutely say do an art fair, yeah.

00:26:47.260 --> 00:26:52.100
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And it's very self-empowering because it's not driven by someone else.

00:26:52.100 --> 00:26:54.860
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, you know, I mean, you have to pay for it.

00:26:54.860 --> 00:26:57.480
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then you pay a small percentage as well, you know.

00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:59.320
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I was very lucky.

00:26:59.320 --> 00:27:01.480
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I actually did it four times in a row.

00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:07.260
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>The first time I'm not going to do it is this May because my son's graduating and I've got a solo show right now.

00:27:07.260 --> 00:27:09.540
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, it just didn't feel like the right thing to do.

00:27:09.540 --> 00:27:11.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So but I absolutely love doing them.

00:27:11.820 --> 00:27:15.520
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, you meet other artists, you meet people and you talk about your work.

00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:20.540
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, it's like it's like having an opening night at a solo show for four days, you know.

00:27:21.260 --> 00:27:23.320
<v Nancy Magarill>It's a lot of work as well.

00:27:23.320 --> 00:27:25.380
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's a tremendous amount of work, it's exhausting.

00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:30.060
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're lucky to have young people in your life because they help you with things, right?

00:27:30.060 --> 00:27:32.320
<v Peter Michael Marino>Technical things and social media things.

00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:34.040
<v Peter Michael Marino>How involved are you blushing?

00:27:34.040 --> 00:27:37.940
<v Peter Michael Marino>How involved are they in that?

00:27:37.940 --> 00:27:41.620
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, my older son, my younger son has been away at college the whole time.

00:27:41.620 --> 00:27:44.140
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>He basically, he went to college in 2021.

00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:46.520
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So really at the start of this, he's been at college.

00:27:47.380 --> 00:27:56.640
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>My older son is here and he has apps, so him and his partner have helped me the last two art fairs to set up.

00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:58.400
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And my husband's been help.

00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:02.240
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Social media I've actually done on my own and it's incredible.

00:28:03.860 --> 00:28:06.520
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I'm not a technical person.

00:28:06.540 --> 00:28:13.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I have managed, you know, there was an artist who had a big following way back in 2021.

00:28:13.040 --> 00:28:18.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>She did like a free week course on Instagram and stuff.

00:28:18.080 --> 00:28:19.100
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I did that.

00:28:19.100 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And you know, believe me, I think because I have quite a big following on Instagram, people are like, what do you do?

00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:28.660
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>What's your secret?

00:28:28.660 --> 00:28:29.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And all that.

00:28:29.080 --> 00:28:32.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I don't even have one of these professional lights.

00:28:32.040 --> 00:28:33.500
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I don't have any app.

00:28:35.260 --> 00:28:39.140
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I, you know, I'm a by the seat of my pants kind of gal.

00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:40.120
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>That's so fantastic.

00:28:40.120 --> 00:28:41.840
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And for some reason it's worked.

00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:43.160
<v Peter Michael Marino>Don't change a thing.

00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:43.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:51.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>Do you have, so full disclosure, I've done the Edinburgh Fringe Festival six times.

00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:52.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>One of my favourite things.

00:28:52.760 --> 00:28:54.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>And I go for the whole month.

00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:59.340
<v Peter Michael Marino>I'll be going and I'll be going again for a week actually this time around.

00:29:00.020 --> 00:29:07.780
<v Peter Michael Marino>So, and I just, I mean, many reasons to go of being exposed to art from around the world, of course.

00:29:07.780 --> 00:29:14.100
<v Peter Michael Marino>But the spirit of Scottish people is very welcome to a guy from Queens.

00:29:14.100 --> 00:29:21.140
<v Peter Michael Marino>And I also am fully convinced that the earth itself is magical.

00:29:21.140 --> 00:29:27.000
<v Peter Michael Marino>There's, there are fairies and gnomes living in the ground.

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:30.260
<v Peter Michael Marino>So it is, it's like going to a spa unless you live there.

00:29:30.260 --> 00:29:34.000
<v Peter Michael Marino>I'm sure it's not the same if you live there, but very restorative.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:41.320
<v Peter Michael Marino>So do you see yourself having a gallery showing in your home land?

00:29:41.320 --> 00:29:43.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Wow, that's a great question.

00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:46.440
<v Peter Michael Marino>Hey, Nancy, I have a good question.

00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:48.100
<v Nancy Magarill>I know.

00:29:48.100 --> 00:29:49.660
<v Nancy Magarill>That's not something you ever thought of?

00:29:51.080 --> 00:29:52.860
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>No, actually, no.

00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:54.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're blushing so hard.

00:29:54.300 --> 00:29:56.900
<v Peter Michael Marino>I feel like you have to do this.

00:29:56.900 --> 00:30:11.100
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I think, you know, what's really hard is like, I prefer to work on wood, Annie, and so it would be really hard to have that amount of wood and to take that home, to ship it home.

00:30:11.120 --> 00:30:14.180
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But, you know, I do work when I work.

00:30:14.180 --> 00:30:21.540
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Sometimes I work out, like right now, I'm working on one four feet by four feet and one four feet by five feet painting.

00:30:21.540 --> 00:30:29.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, you know, because they're so big, it's hard to ship and work on pieces of wood that big.

00:30:29.580 --> 00:30:31.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I do work on canvas.

00:30:31.020 --> 00:30:36.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I could actually work and do canvas and then just roll it all up and then frame it when I go there.

00:30:36.820 --> 00:30:38.220
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>That's definitely a possibility.

00:30:40.300 --> 00:30:42.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>I can't wait to see your show next summer.

00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:51.620
<v Peter Michael Marino>So you are not taking, I'm thinking I'm picturing your mixed media stuff.

00:30:51.620 --> 00:30:57.040
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're not thinking ever of that being in a print version.

00:30:57.040 --> 00:31:00.620
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's meant to be on a four by five canvas.

00:31:00.620 --> 00:31:03.800
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, I get a lot of people asking me, do I do prints?

00:31:03.800 --> 00:31:07.640
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Because, you know, and I want my work to be accessible.

00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:18.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And obviously, since I've started, the prices have gone up and up because, you know, it's hard, you know, especially when you're working with galleries, you're giving 50% away to like the gallery, you know.

00:31:19.860 --> 00:31:28.980
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, so I generally just do original pieces of work, but I do, and people have asked me, can you do prints, you know, and it makes it much cheaper.

00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:45.000
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But it's just, it's a whole other ball game, like trying to get color matching, and also, you know, the shipping and handling is a lot of work, you know, and I'm just like, you know, for such a small amount of money, it's just, it's a lot of work.

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:50.700
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, if I ever got to a position where I had a studio assistant, maybe, you know.

00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:51.740
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, right.

00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:53.160
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's a great assignment.

00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:54.040
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:31:54.040 --> 00:32:10.420
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But how I've gotten around doing sort of more accessible work is like, that's more like financially, kind of for everybody is like, I'll do tiny pieces of work, you know, and that makes it, but it just prints are just too much work.

00:32:10.420 --> 00:32:19.120
<v Nancy Magarill>I also think that's something that it doesn't cheapen it, because I think it's really important that people have something they can take if they love an artist.

00:32:19.120 --> 00:32:27.580
<v Nancy Magarill>But I think that there's certain things about the work that you're doing, that it really is something that needs to be in a gallery and hung.

00:32:27.580 --> 00:32:39.660
<v Nancy Magarill>And it's not so much, I don't know, I feel like that's the kind of stuff like that the Met does in their shop, in their gift shop, or some of these places do, that maybe they do for a special thing.

00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:47.780
<v Nancy Magarill>But I don't know, there's something about what you're doing that I just feel like it needs to be hung on a wall, framed on wood.

00:32:48.860 --> 00:32:55.000
<v Nancy Magarill>It's so special that I almost feel like a print, I don't know, I just don't feel like it's a print.

00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:03.880
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I don't want to sound snobby about it, because I think it's a great thing for people that really don't have money, and they can have nice art on the wall with prints and stuff.

00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:14.240
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But for me as well, just my work is so textural, and so like, my work is sometimes up to 10 layers on it.

00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:23.000
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And even when you look at things on Instagram, I mean, on these wee boxes, you cannot see the depth of texture on like, you know.

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:27.460
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so I think that would actually be hard to translate as well on a piece, you know.

00:33:27.460 --> 00:33:40.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, I mean, I, you know, I did, I had an open studio just before Christmas, and I ended up doing some work on just loose canvas, and then mounting them behind photomount paper.

00:33:40.820 --> 00:33:44.320
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I made them very accessible, like price-wise and stuff.

00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:49.520
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I ended up, I sold some, but like I had some left in them, and the fires happened in LA.

00:33:49.520 --> 00:33:52.500
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I just sort of put them on Instagram, and I said, anyone want these here?

00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:55.440
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>250 bucks, take it, and I'll pay for the shipping.

00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:59.500
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, you know, I ended up selling four or five of them, and I was able to donate all the money, you know.

00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:08.640
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So, it's nice to have things that are, you know, more financially able for other, everyone to have access to.

00:34:08.640 --> 00:34:15.160
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But it's also, it's, you know, it's a hard life being an artist, just trying to make a living.

00:34:15.160 --> 00:34:15.840
<v Nancy Magarill>Totally.

00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:17.480
<v Peter Michael Marino>As we all know.

00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:18.480
<v Nancy Magarill>It's so much work.

00:34:18.660 --> 00:34:26.280
<v Nancy Magarill>It's enough that you're doing all the work that you're doing as an artist, but then also to have to ship, to have to pack everything up, all of that work.

00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:27.820
<v Nancy Magarill>That's a lot as well.

00:34:27.820 --> 00:34:28.380
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, it is.

00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:29.360
<v Nancy Magarill>You know.

00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:31.880
<v Nancy Magarill>Are you doing it all by yourself?

00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:32.980
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Pretty much, yeah.

00:34:32.980 --> 00:34:33.740
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, pretty much.

00:34:33.740 --> 00:34:35.240
<v Nancy Magarill>And how big, do you have a big studio?

00:34:35.240 --> 00:34:35.980
<v Nancy Magarill>What's your studio like?

00:34:35.980 --> 00:34:36.500
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I don't.

00:34:36.500 --> 00:34:39.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>My studio, so we live in a townhouse in Harlem.

00:34:40.560 --> 00:34:45.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>We bought and gut renovated a house 19 years ago.

00:34:45.720 --> 00:34:49.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, you know, so it's a fairly small space.

00:34:49.720 --> 00:34:51.240
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Like I'm in it right now.

00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:51.900
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's lovely.

00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:54.340
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's got a beautiful view of the Manhattan skyline.

00:34:54.340 --> 00:34:55.520
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, great light.

00:34:55.520 --> 00:34:57.980
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I have kind of French windows at the front.

00:34:57.980 --> 00:34:59.740
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And, but it's not that big.

00:34:59.740 --> 00:35:08.000
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's probably like about 14 feet wide or even less maybe by 15, you know.

00:35:08.240 --> 00:35:12.560
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I actually, I had a commission last year.

00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:18.220
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>There's a hotel in Midtown Manhattan at 50th Street in Lexington Avenue called the Benjamin Hotel.

00:35:18.220 --> 00:35:18.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah.

00:35:18.580 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And they were doing, they did a gut renovation of their hotel.

00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:30.560
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so they were looking for an artist and it was a big process, but somebody came to me and said, can they put my name forward?

00:35:30.560 --> 00:35:31.300
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And I said, yes.

00:35:31.300 --> 00:35:33.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so they ended up choosing me.

00:35:33.020 --> 00:35:36.400
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it was two seven feet by seven feet paintings.

00:35:36.540 --> 00:35:38.780
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Like that was the biggest I had ever painted.

00:35:38.780 --> 00:35:42.100
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And literally it took up the whole wall.

00:35:42.100 --> 00:35:43.980
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're living with your art.

00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:44.700
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Oh my God.

00:35:45.160 --> 00:35:47.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was a challenge painting these.

00:35:47.580 --> 00:35:54.560
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Because literally the canvas actually, because you have to paint like a big salvage so that it can be wrapped over when it's stretched.

00:35:54.560 --> 00:36:02.020
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so my wall goes down in a slanted roof because we have solar panels on the roof.

00:36:02.020 --> 00:36:04.920
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so at the smallest part, it's only seven feet.

00:36:05.380 --> 00:36:12.320
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I had it pinned and I had it flapped on the ceiling, you know, because it used up every space.

00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:13.280
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But it was incredible.

00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>If it was any bigger, I would never be able to do it.

00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:17.000
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, so, but fortunately.

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:18.020
<v Peter Michael Marino>How did you get it down the stairs?

00:36:18.020 --> 00:36:19.540
<v Nancy Magarill>That's exactly what I was going to ask.

00:36:19.540 --> 00:36:20.720
<v Nancy Magarill>How did you get it out?

00:36:20.720 --> 00:36:24.700
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, I pinned the canvas to the wall because they were doing the framing themselves.

00:36:24.700 --> 00:36:27.600
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So I had pinned the canvas to the wall.

00:36:27.600 --> 00:36:33.820
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then once it was finished, it took four of us to take the pins off and roll the canvas up.

00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.540
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then I had to take them down to another room and then I rolled them.

00:36:37.540 --> 00:36:42.140
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, you get these at Home Depot, you get these big cylinder carpool things.

00:36:42.140 --> 00:36:44.120
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, it's very expensive.

00:36:44.240 --> 00:36:46.940
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, yeah, well, it's basically your support.

00:36:46.940 --> 00:36:53.080
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had used them because I used to volunteer at my kid's school to do the stage sets for, like, build the stage sets.

00:36:53.100 --> 00:36:54.340
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yes, Debbie.

00:36:54.820 --> 00:36:56.540
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, you're talking Pete's language.

00:36:56.540 --> 00:37:01.740
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Yeah, and I had used them to build pillars for the sound of music.

00:37:03.100 --> 00:37:04.780
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And so I had remembered about them.

00:37:04.780 --> 00:37:15.540
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So they're actually, they're for builders to put cement in, to make hollow cement for doing the grounds of like at the very beginning of building a house.

00:37:15.540 --> 00:37:18.040
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So anyway, I put two of them together.

00:37:18.040 --> 00:37:22.260
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then it took four of us to wrap it around these cylinders.

00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:26.100
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then, you know, we kind of took them in the car.

00:37:26.100 --> 00:37:32.560
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then I dropped them off at a place in Brooklyn, out in Greenpoint, I think it was, to get them framed.

00:37:32.560 --> 00:37:34.460
<v Peter Michael Marino>So these were not 10 layers?

00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:34.980
<v Nancy Magarill>I was gonna say.

00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:35.520
<v Peter Michael Marino>They were.

00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:37.600
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>There was about 10 layers in them, but you know.

00:37:37.600 --> 00:37:41.260
<v Peter Michael Marino>How did you know it was gonna have the flexibility and not crack or keel or?

00:37:41.260 --> 00:37:44.500
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>You know, acrylic is fairly forgiving, you know what I mean?

00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:47.720
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Cause acrylic basically is, it's called.

00:37:47.720 --> 00:37:48.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>Rubbery, right?

00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:49.280
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's glue.

00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:50.860
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It's basically like Elmer's glue.

00:37:51.120 --> 00:38:00.680
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, it's called gloss medium, but it's basically a mixture of gloss medium and pigment color.

00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:04.900
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it's basically like acrylic is really like colored glue.

00:38:04.900 --> 00:38:05.380
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:38:05.380 --> 00:38:07.600
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>So it's kind of got a lot of flexibility.

00:38:07.600 --> 00:38:15.780
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It does, it can crack, but it was kind of fairly fresh and I mean, it was completely dry, but it was fine.

00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:19.920
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was only gonna be rolled for like a day or two because they were gonna start framing it.

00:38:20.700 --> 00:38:25.600
<v Nancy Magarill>And there's no way that the rolling can change it at all.

00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:29.760
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I had read, like I looked on YouTube and people do all the time.

00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:39.300
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>That's how people get away with not the big shipping charges is like the roll and a tube and then send it to a gallery at the other end of the country.

00:38:39.660 --> 00:38:41.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>And then they'll get somebody to frame it there.

00:38:41.580 --> 00:38:41.840
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah.

00:38:41.860 --> 00:38:42.880
<v Peter Michael Marino>Amazing.

00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.920
<v Peter Michael Marino>That's so interesting.

00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:48.260
<v Nancy Magarill>And do you have any control over the framing or is it all that they choose?

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:48.700
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>No, I didn't.

00:38:48.700 --> 00:38:51.960
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>It was their choice and they did a great job.

00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:53.640
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I mean, they really did a beautiful job.

00:38:53.640 --> 00:38:55.660
<v Peter Michael Marino>It's not talking about the framing on the outside.

00:38:55.660 --> 00:38:59.760
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're talking about what the frame, what is the canvas is being attached to.

00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:11.580
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Well, they framed it first on like on a, you know, they stapled it probably to a frame and then they actually made a beautiful wood frame for the outside.

00:39:11.580 --> 00:39:12.960
<v Peter Michael Marino>Do you have to approve that?

00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:14.060
<v Peter Michael Marino>Do you have to approve that design?

00:39:14.680 --> 00:39:15.880
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>I didn't, I didn't have that.

00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:17.780
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>That wasn't part of my job, no.

00:39:17.780 --> 00:39:20.560
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>But they did an incredible job and it looks incredible.

00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:22.900
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>If you're ever in mid-time going just put that in.

00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:26.840
<v Nancy Magarill>I actually work, my day gig is around there, so I'm actually going to go.

00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:27.360
<v Debbie Taylor-Kerman>Okay.

00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:30.360
<v Nancy Magarill>After I go to the Heath Gallery though, because that's on my calendar.

00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.040
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, Nancy, you've got to take selfies at all.

00:39:32.040 --> 00:39:33.760
<v Peter Michael Marino>I'm going to be Debbie's kid now.

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Peter Michael Marino>You have to take selfies at all these places and then we'll use that to build up to announcing Debbie's episode.

00:39:41.720 --> 00:39:43.020
<v Nancy Magarill>Definitely.

00:39:43.020 --> 00:39:48.780
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, it's funny because a friend of mine who does wallpaper, she creates all this wallpaper.

00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:49.800
<v Nancy Magarill>She and I were looking.

00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:51.220
<v Nancy Magarill>I was like, you have to see this artist.

00:39:51.220 --> 00:39:51.780
<v Nancy Magarill>She's amazing.

00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:53.380
<v Nancy Magarill>And we're like, when can we go?

00:39:53.380 --> 00:39:57.580
<v Nancy Magarill>So we've been trying to plan the trip to go because I flipped over it.

00:39:57.580 --> 00:40:01.260
<v Nancy Magarill>I just think they're so exquisite and I'm excited to share them.

00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:02.880
<v Peter Michael Marino>The right thing happened.

00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:06.340
<v Peter Michael Marino>Your art was out there on social media.

00:40:06.340 --> 00:40:10.220
<v Peter Michael Marino>Someone shared it and then somebody like Nancy saw it and fell in love with it.

00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:11.580
<v Peter Michael Marino>And now here you are.

00:40:11.580 --> 00:40:14.300
<v Nancy Magarill>And thank God Melinda was able to bring us together.

00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:15.220
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah.

00:40:15.220 --> 00:40:22.000
<v Peter Michael Marino>And you, Debbie, are the first person in our 40 episodes that neither of us know the person we're talking to.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.040
<v Nancy Magarill>Yeah, that's true, actually.

00:40:24.040 --> 00:40:25.400
<v Peter Michael Marino>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:26.420
<v Peter Michael Marino>You're breaking ground.

00:40:26.420 --> 00:40:28.300
<v Peter Michael Marino>Breaking new ground, Debbie.

00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:30.540
<v Peter Michael Marino>Hey, thanks for checking us out.

00:40:30.540 --> 00:40:33.340
<v Peter Michael Marino>Links to today's guests can be found in the show notes.

00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:38.320
<v Nancy Magarill>Don't forget to subscribe, like us, rate us, and tell all your friends about Arts and Craft.